Been A While - GC Deer Page - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-07-2011, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
Sage
 
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Been A While - GC Deer Page

Here is the loink for all things deer on the GC web site. Complete with ways to find answers to your questions:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...ity/deer/11949

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-11-2011, 11:26 PM
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

Looking at 3A 2011/12 antlerless allocation worksheet.

It shows our habitat on a steady decline while our herd health is on the upswing.

3B ...the habitat is on a steady increase, yet the herd health is flat.

2G...habitat is on the rise and herd health is also.

Should we not see a decline in habitat in tandum with poorer herd health or visa versa? Why the inconsistency?
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-11-2011, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
Sage
 
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

This isn't a light switch. Each measure moves at different speeds with habitat moving the slowest. Deer numbers and health is a reflection of proper nutrition aided by quality food. But quality food needs to grow. If it isn't there, it must establish itself.

It is also important to remember, that in some fern infested areas, the seed bank for some species has been severely harmed. Seed bank being the buried seed from seasons past. Like most things in nature, it has an expiration date.

Laurel, fern, and other such ground cover can also impede nutritional food from getting established.

On the other side of the coin, take the George Reserve experiment. Six deer in a pen very large fenced area. Unhunted there was like 120 deer inside six years later.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-12-2011, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

The George River Reserve:

<a href="http://sitemaker.umich.edu/esgr/description" target="_blank">The Reserve Deer Herd

In March 1928, four does and two bucks of the White-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) were released into the ESGR.

From this basic stock, the deer population rose to more than 160 animals in 1933, creating heavy browsing pressure on the vegetation and suppressing natural plant succession.

Since 1942, annual culling of the deer herd has been carried out, with a resulting slow but definite recuperation of the browsed vegetation.


Before the herd was reduced in size, reproduction of less-palatable species such as red cedar and hawthorn was replacing that of the oaks, hickories and maple. As the range has recovered, browsing pressure on the less preferred species has decreased.


The ESGR deer herd has been the focus of many studies, including Dale McCullough's landmark book "The George Reserve deer herd: population ecology of a k-selected species." This text continues to be a must-read for managers of large mammal populations.

</a>


Spend some time and research this.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 06:02 AM
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

The PGC graph shows that in 2010 we had as many deer in 3A as we did in 2006. The herd health (fawn to doe) graph shows the top of upward spike for 2010, equal to 2007. The habitat health graph shows 3A as having a slow steady decline ..to the what is now the lowest point over the represented time period (2001 to 2010).

The concensus on HPA is that as habitat gets worse, mother nature compensates with fewer fawns born causing a herd crash. Yet, here is a series of PGC graphs that seem to show a contradiction to that concensus.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
Sage
 
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

Put a link up.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 12:31 PM
The Man
 
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetick
Deer numbers and health is a reflection of proper nutrition aided by quality food.
There is my link to that. Keep a on.

The allocation worksheet is found via the link you provided at the top of the thread.

Based on the PGC antlerless allocation worksheets, 3A population hit bottom in 2008 and is at the peak of a rise in 2010..showing for then, about the same population numbers as 2005...45,000 deer.

The herd health graph at 2008, corresponds with the herd population graph for 2008. Both went down. However, by 2010, the graph shows herd health rising... along with the herd population of course.

Over the entire time span that the graph represents (2001 to 2010), a slow steady decrease for forrest habitat health declines. It has gone from 64% to 56%.

It's your concensus..as it is others on HPA , that deer numbers and health are a reflection of forrest health. I think all of you are right. However, should we be seeing that within the PGC assessment? As I look this worksheet, I see a contradiction to what we all believe. Could the PGC have something determined wrong? Either the herd health assessment is in error.. or the habitat health.. the herd population.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

That data reflects a five year look at the habitat in the WMU. Deer numbers are done each year via butcher shop, taxidermist, and other checks on deer. There may be variances in the data between the habitat and deer measures.

If you caught the deer sections presentation last April on the live feed from the GC meeting, some time was explaining this exact issue.

Also, last year the GC changed the habitat measures and methodology based on recomendations from the deer audit. They went to a measure incorporating data from several sources across the state. That includes DCNR and I think the US Forest service and universities.

So based on the presentation earlier this year, the differences between habitat and health should hopefully close over time.

Is your position a short term gain - or a long term loss? Separate the issues.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 12:49 AM
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Re: Been A While - GC Deer Page

Amazing the number of WMU'S that as the herd has decreased, the habitat health has decreased also, or has shown very little or no improvement.
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