thoughts on high grading - Page 6 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
 47Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #51 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-05-2020, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Western pa
Posts: 3,732
Back To Top
OK should have read it instead of skimming it while I watch football, thanks.
jimbridger likes this.
LONZO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-08-2020, 01:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2A-Wash. Co.
Posts: 16,335
Back To Top
Quote:
Yet I would say at least 75% of first yr bucks I have observed are spikes or y's.

Your opening post is the only one I've read so far, so it may have been addressed, but... shouldn't most 1.5 yr old buck be spikes or "Y"'s ? Even in a healthy herd ?

2A-Wash. Co.
Fleroo is offline  
post #53 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Western pa
Posts: 3,732
Back To Top
The original rules were set up to protect 50% of first yr bucks s I would say no.
LONZO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #54 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 05:50 PM
The Man
 
loridr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pa, Dauphin co
Posts: 7,552
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo View Post
Your opening post is the only one I've read so far, so it may have been addressed, but... shouldn't most 1.5 yr old buck be spikes or "Y"'s ? Even in a healthy herd ?

Yearling bucks can be anything from small spikes to basket 10 points, but a good portion of yearling bucks in a balanced herd in good habitat will be basket 6 and 8 points.
jimbridger likes this.
loridr is offline  
post #55 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 01:10 PM
Part of the Community
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 124
Back To Top
When does a dog stop chasing its tail?
Westrim is offline  
post #56 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 11:02 PM
Senior Member
 
jimbridger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: kunkle, pa
Posts: 17,346
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westrim View Post
When does a dog stop chasing its tail?

When he gets an "ate" pointer. Waugh!

AR is only a pacifier.You will never grow if it's not in your genes.
jimbridger is offline  
post #57 of 59 (permalink) Old 02-05-2020, 02:02 PM
Wiz
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,620
Back To Top
Nutrition + Age + Genetics = Deer


Without good nutrition, it don't matter if you have a 5.5 year old buck with the pedigree of a dozen 200"+ bucks and does with fathers that were all 200", a buck will never get big.

Age: a deer spends the first 3 years of its life developing its body more than antlers. If you shoot them before 3.5 years they are never showing their true antler potential.

Genetics: The most overblown and non relevant component of the big buck argument anywhere that has only a purpose to cause PA deer hunters to get into arguments and fights quicker than talking politics or religion.

The best research I've seen on all of this that hasn't been mentioned is its not mom or dad's genetics or what they were eating, and its not what the trophy or spike buck is eating, but its what grandma was eating. Based on a 20+ year study in Mississippi, that investigated the "poor" genetics question, most bucks will have similar antler potential and growth if their grandmas were put in an environment that had good nutrition. If grandma isn't eating well, the genes for growing big antlers are not going to be expressed in future generations.

I was talking to my allergist a few weeks ago and he said a similar thing happens to the grandchildren of mothers that smoke while pregnant with a daughter. The daughter's eggs are all developed when she is in her mother. When grandma has her daughter and the daughter's offspring have a high probability of having asthma.

What does this mean. If the PGC started getting the deer in check in the early 2000's and it took 10 years for the habitat to improve, grandma born in 2010 would likely have her first doe fawn in 2012 and she would probably have her first buck fawn no earlier than 2014. As far as spikes and forkies, could they be the offspring of fawn does that were bred during the second rut if they were up to weight?
pchunter1231 likes this.
Wiz is offline  
post #58 of 59 (permalink) Old 02-05-2020, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
 
jimbridger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: kunkle, pa
Posts: 17,346
Back To Top
Genetics the most overblown seems odd when you first state that without good nutrition good genetics would not matter. Than you state that without age true potential would not be seen. Is that potential not from genetics?


The way I see it genetics is the most important. Genetics is the major factor and nutrition and age are the limiting or enabling factors. With all the nutrition and age you can get you just can't out grow your genes.

Potential is due to your genes. Genetics give you your potential and nutrition and age ether allow or limit the full potential.



The reason many down play genetics is because it can not be easily controlled by man in wild herds. Nutrition can be supplemented and manipulated. Age can be regulated and selected. But man can not readily or easily select or manipulate genetics.
If deer farms did one thing they proved that genetics were the major factor. All the big operations have access to the best nutrition money could buy and all the time needed to allow for full expression of potential. The only thing that separates the big ones from the really big ones is the breeding. Breeding the right combination results in offspring with the best potential for the traits desired. In this case as hunters, antlers seems to be the most desired trait. Antlers seem to be the only potential that matters.



If poor nutrition factors in from the grandmother of the deer, what does it say of the grandmother that first gave birth at one year of age and carried that offspring for 6 months when her body was not fully developed. What does it say for those offspring if they also are bred before the age of one?

I agree that many smaller antlered deer are late born. Some from last years fawns and some from late bred adults. Many/ most were because of poor nutrition. Waugh!

AR is only a pacifier.You will never grow if it's not in your genes.
jimbridger is offline  
post #59 of 59 (permalink) Old 02-05-2020, 08:45 PM
The Man
 
loridr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pa, Dauphin co
Posts: 7,552
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbridger View Post
... With all the nutrition and age you can get you just can't out grow your genes...

Disagree. With both age and nutrition I've lately out grown my jeans. Oh, you're talking genes... never mind.
jimbridger and savage303 like this.
loridr is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome