2G Deer Saga Continues - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
The Man
 
grundsow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Berks County, PA
Posts: 6,615
Back To Top
2G Deer Saga Continues



PGC’s latest report (21001-13z.pdf) places the 2014 deer population in 2G/2H *below* the previous year, and yet PGC is still unwilling to say it in so many words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PGC report 21001-13z.pdf
“No WMUs showed a decreasing [deer] population trend.”
But that nuance aside, Rosenberry & Co. claim the 2G/2H deer herd today is both LARGER than it was during Herd Reduction, and at the same time producing nearly HALF the number of buck as back then (6,500 buck killed today vs. 10,110 buck back in year 2003).

How can this be possible?

The buck harvest has always been touted as the strongest indicator of population size, right? The current buck harvest would suggest the population in 2G/2H today is roughly HALF what it was in 2003, right? A decreased herd size assessment such as this would agree with the decreased sightings in NC camps that many hunters are relaying today, and would place the 2G/2H deer herd at an over-winter density somewhere around 10 dpfsm. In other words, well below the density it was during Herd Reduction, which would seem logical to many, right?

So why doesn’t PGC just come out and say this?

How can there be MORE deer today than during HR??? Can anyone explain the current estimates produced by PGC? Seriously…

On the other hand, if the 2G/2H herd really is LARGER today than prior to HR like PGC says, the next logical question is what then is happening to all the extra fawns that should be being produced by the larger herd and improved habitat of today? Are the fawns being killed by predators? Are they dying of old age? What is going on with these estimates? Help me out here…

NOTE: For anyone who has not been following along, over the course of the last 10 years or so, PGC has made 3 different attempts at estimating the deer population in 2G/2H.
PURPLE line was their 1st attempt
LIGHT BLUE their 2nd attempt
GREEN is their 3rd and most recent attempt

I can't complain but sometimes I still do - Joe Walsh
grundsow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 08:17 PM
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pa
Posts: 1,196
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

the silence is deafening
oaktowntom is offline  
post #3 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 09:42 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: northern Dauphin Co.
Posts: 2,731
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

Dunno. We saw plenty of deer and deer sign in bear season in 2G. Several bucks, and some nice ones along with the sign. Course you hadda walk about 2 hrs at a pretty good clip in tick as *** laurel to get there. They tend to like it thick and back in up there in any population amounts, but did see some plentiful sign closer to the road I'd set up on in archery too. I don't hunt from that camp in deer season, but the guys that do have killed a number of buck up there.
holedigger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 11:57 AM
dce
Sage
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: dubois
Posts: 20,130
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

I didn't hunt 2G this year but I live and hunted in 2 different counties in 2H ON PUBLIC LAND.In three days of rifle season,my son and I killed 6 deer.We saw practically no other hunters and I'm only aware of one other deer that was killed in those areas.The herd seemed to be the lowest overall between 2003-2006.Some areas have more and some have less as in the case every year.
dce is online now  
post #5 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 12:12 PM
dce
Sage
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: dubois
Posts: 20,130
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

We went for a walk on a dmap area owned by a timber company yesterday afternoon.We were out for about an hour and just walked the edge of a pretty big laurel patch.This area was loaded with acorns and the deer had the open woods all tore up.You could see acorn shells all over the top of the snow where the deer were working.All in all,we saw 8 deer in about an hour of being out there and there were tracks all over the place.Of any place I hunt,this area probably gets the most pressure but I know that very few deer were shot in that area.Most of the guys I ran into while hunting were complaining that there's no deer.
dce is online now  
post #6 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 01:34 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Clearfield12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Pa
Posts: 3,620
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues


Of course Less Deer has always Equaled Less Deer but that was the plan all along we were told until the habitat rebounded. The fences came down a couple years ago.

I'm in agreement with Doug on when the herd was it absolute lowest.
I think 2006 was when it bottomed out. The herd seemed to climb til around 2012 and then took another nosedive. It's not as bad as 2006.
I truly believe there was more winter kill last year than people realized.
Clearfield12 is offline  
post #7 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 02:02 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 3,200
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundsow
But that nuance aside, Rosenberry & Co. claim the 2G/2H deer herd today is both LARGER than it was during Herd Reduction, and at the same time producing nearly HALF the number of buck as back then (6,500 buck killed today vs. 10,110 buck back in year 2003).

How can this be possible?
Wasn't 2002 the first year of AR, so we went in to the 2003 season probably carrying over more buck, hence the reason for the higher kill? What was the buck harvest in 2002?

I'm not sure if you've ever left Berks County to actually go in the woods of 2G, but the public land where I hunt in 2G I have no doubts the herd is back to just as high or higher in some locales as pre HR.

I’m a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
bigbear is offline  
post #8 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 02:54 PM
dce
Sage
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: dubois
Posts: 20,130
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

I'm not convinced that the herd is at 2003 levels although it may be.I absolutely think there's more deer out than most people realize.I live here and I'm in the woods every chance I get.There's a big difference having that perspective than simply hunting for a few days each season.I see a lot of deer throughout the year but see way less during the season.There's just too many places for the deer to lay down undetected.Without people moving them and without them having to search for food,they become very tough to hunt.
dce is online now  
post #9 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 04:17 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
Clearfield12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Pa
Posts: 3,620
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear
Quote:
Originally Posted by grundsow
But that nuance aside, Rosenberry & Co. claim the 2G/2H deer herd today is both LARGER than it was during Herd Reduction, and at the same time producing nearly HALF the number of buck as back then (6,500 buck killed today vs. 10,110 buck back in year 2003).

How can this be possible?
Wasn't 2002 the first year of AR, so we went in to the 2003 season probably carrying over more buck, hence the reason for the higher kill? What was the buck harvest in 2002?

I'm not sure if you've ever left Berks County to actually go in the woods of 2G, but the public land where I hunt in 2G I have no doubts the herd is back to just as high or higher in some locales as pre HR.

The herd is half the size of Pre Hr... The harvest numbers don't lie alledgedly
Clearfield12 is offline  
post #10 of 436 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 05:23 PM
dce
Sage
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: dubois
Posts: 20,130
Back To Top
Re: 2G Deer Saga Continues

You're probably correct if you're talking about pre AR.Concurrent seasons was started in 2000 and most of the damage was done that year and the next two years.If I were to guess,I would say we have as many deer as we did in 2003.Things were pretty slim for a few years after 2003.
dce is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome