Proposing an AR at my camp - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Proposing an AR at my camp

Ok, let me first off start by stating I know not everyone likes AR or believes in it. I for one love it and do believe in it. I'm a member of a 250 acre camp in SE Somerset County. Currently, we take out about one 2.5 year old 8 pt a year. (Before the state implemented AR, seeing at 8 point was the equivalent of seeing a unicorn.) Every few years we get two or three 2.5 year olds, but it's rare. We do shoot however (2-3) 5 or 6 pt 1.5 year old bucks each year. The camp is somewhat divided on implementing an AR to say 3 up off the beam like the western part of the state or say 15" wide spread.

So, my question is for those of you that belong to camps or leases with others, how has your own AR system worked out? What did you do to enforce it? What have the results been? How did you get buy in from other members? Is 250 acres manageable? Our neighbor with the largest amount of land is already implementing the AR that I described.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument about AR, so please don't bother to comment if you just have something negative to say about ARs.
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 03:29 PM
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

I guess the question really lies in who manages the land. The guys who have shoot the 1.5 year olds do they have all of archery, all of rifle to hunt or just a day here and there. It is one thing to have the entire group on the same page but if there are guys who only have a few days to hunt and dont contribute to the management over all I think your battle will be a hard fought one. Also do you have the resources to grow them bigger, food plots and natural foods that will allow for antler growth or will the big woods in Somerset continue to offer you the same type of deer you have always seen. This isnt something that would happen over night and it will take each member to put forth the effort. Also what would be the rule for a youth hunter?

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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

Jmdb

You hit on the biggest problem, a couple of the guys against it don't archery hunt and one of them lives out of state and only rifle hunts. They think there would be no bucks left for them to shoot if we implemented this AR. I agree, it would take a year or two to see some impact. We have 2.5 acres of clover that I maintain and 50 acres of a clear cut sanctuary that nobody goes through that holds a lot of deer. Acorns are scarce though. Youth hunters would not have to follow the restriction.
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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:05 PM
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

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Originally Posted by DrewMc
Is 250 acres manageable? Our neighbor with the largest amount of land is already implementing the AR that I described.
That's your biggest plus....what the surrounding property is doing.
Lay out the facts and the proposal to your members and let them vote on it...majority wins.

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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:06 PM
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

It wont work if the rules are not followed by all. No reason you shouldnt see great results by next fall.

How to go about it depends on club bylaws. Most likely vote and majority wins. You just have to be able to toss those who dont follow rules. Id say first mistake kill no buck hunting for one year. Second mistake double dues n no hunting for two years. Third...bye!

Id set it at 14 outside spread or 8 pts. Pretty simple and covers deer with no brow. In a few years look at results and adjust.
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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:16 PM
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

The thing that sticks out to me is that AR on 250 acres would likely have no benefit but could really tick off some of the other camp members. Check out the post from Dr. Diefenbach in the big game forum. The one buck they followed during their study used approximately 190 acres during the one month of their study. Its highly unlikely that the deer are going to follow your property boundaries to stay on the 250 acres that you have control over so chances are that applying some sort of AR on your 250 acres would not do much because the deer are likely spending considerable time off of the property as well where they will not be as protected from harvest.

However, if the neighboring properties have some sort of AR beyond the current state regulations, you might have a small influence on allowing bucks to survival another year and may see results.

Also, keep in mind that AR is generally counterproductive if the doe population is not kept low. Each additional buck that survives another year is another mouth to feed. If you add more bucks without taking out more doe, food resources will be lower for those deer remaining and you probably won't see the results you are hoping to see no matter how much land you have access to managing.
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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

I was thinking of a monetary fine for people that don't abide or make a mistake. Yes, camp owners will vote this year and majority rules. I just don't want there to be angst among those who support vs those against.
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

I know we only have 250 acres, but there is no guarantee that a buck would stay on our property even if we had 1000 acres. From prior years, we have killed a lot of 2.5 year old bucks that we had pictures of in June. Some will hang around if they feel safe, there are doe around, and there is ample food/water.
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:44 PM
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewMc
I was thinking of a monetary fine for people that don't abide or make a mistake. Yes, camp owners will vote this year and majority rules. I just don't want there to be angst among those who support vs those against.
JMO
I believe your plan will open doors that can never be closed , with lots of hard feelings among divided members.

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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proposing an AR at my camp

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhollowarcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewMc
I was thinking of a monetary fine for people that don't abide or make a mistake. Yes, camp owners will vote this year and majority rules. I just don't want there to be angst among those who support vs those against.
JMO
I believe your plan will open doors that can never be closed , with lots of hard feelings among divided members.
Possibly, but I think the day that one of these members shoot a nice buck, they will be glad it was implemented. Because don't get me wrong, they like shooting any buck, but would really enjoy shooting a big one.
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