Handwriting is on the wall. - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Handwriting is on the wall.

Honestly, I think this Arway cat from the PFBC, has to go. The PFBC needs new direction, new leadership. Recent gaffs the PFBC have made, fall squarely on the E.D's shoulders.


- Knocking off $1 of a license in hope of attracting/retaining fishermen (in turn, taking 1 Million or so from the coffers)
- Stating a few years ago, they are against a license increase, because trends prove they lose sales when licenses go up.
(Their thinking on that has apparently since changed).
- Now it's what appears to be the demise of what little Trout stocking vestige remains.


An article in the Aug 4 edition of PON, "Wild Trout Summit set for Aug. 26 in Centre County", has some telling quotes from Arway. It appears the undertaking to end Trout stocking is in motion, and the promotion of Wild/Native Trout fishing, will take it's place. I'm on record here (and elsewhere) many times, explaining the merits of PA's stocking program. Sure, it's a costly endeavor. Hatcheries in disrepair, and in need of upgrades to keep up with EPA/DEP guidelines. Costly expense in maintaining stocking vehicles, and officer vehicles, etc.... BUT, once again I will say, the stocking program butters the PFBC bread. Without, the PFBC is done, or at least a mere shell of what it was. Period. The Grandpa/Grandma's, the little kids, the non-destination trout water travelers, they are all for the most part, done. Of course, the license sales will collapse commensurately.


This "Wild Trout" promotion, is a warming-up if you will, in what is sure to come next. Take this quote from Arway...... "We are blessed by wild trout waters that often get overlooked by people who think there are no great fishing opportunities unless the great white fleet (of stocking trucks) visites the scene. The reality is, that we want people to fish for the renewable resource that Pennsylvania has to offer."


Now, mind you, this is the PFBC Executive Director, pretty much "mocking" the state stocking program vehicles as "The Great White Fleet". HOW STUPID ARE YOU, FELLA ? Throwing your bread-n-butter completely under the bus.... or stock truck in this instance. And while creating awareness that PA does offer "wild trout" opportunity, that "renewable resource", is going to take a severe hit, when the masses slip on the hip-boots and go for a hike.




Then there's this snippet by the E.D....... "Promoting wild trout fishing doesn't put the resource at risk, but does call attention to the importance of coldwater conservation, Arway said." PASS THE PIPE PLEASE ! Are you serious ? I've got some news for y'all. IF what appears on the horizon here in PA, comes to fruition, there's gunna be a whole bunch of what are currently, the 5%'ers of PA trout fishermen, powerful mad. Those Fly-Chuckers on the Letort, Spring, Little J, and Penns Creek, well, they're on the brink of having a whole bunch of streamside companionship. And they aren't going to like what they see. All you guys on here, that wake up at 3 AM, travel 100's of miles and multiple hours to "destination fish" your favorite wild/native haunts, pffft, the locals will have those "get away" locations cleaned out before your alarm goes off. Those 100-200 trout days you spinner fellas like to have, kiss 'em goodbye. The telling sign that y'all hate to see, being streamside boot-prints, well, they will be well-worn paths after this occurs. Those perty little 6-7" Natives and Wild Browns ya love to photo..... "frying pan fodder" now folks. Some y'all post photos with landmarks, such as RR trestles, car bridges, even buildings/homes. Those little gems will be the first to go. Easy access to clean house.


Troutdoorsman posted some streams I haven't fished in decades. 45 mins from my house. Well, I guarantee ya, if they do away with stocking, myself, my friends, and many others, will rekindle our relationship with those streams, if we get the urge to wet a line. Right now, we are satisfied to hike a few miles into hard to access, and unstocked stretches of stocked streams, to fish away from crowds.


PFBC, YOU ARE IN SERIOUS NEED OF GUIDANCE AND LEADERSHIP.


Oh, P.S. The latest gaff. The PFBC has purchased an RV. The RV will parade around urban settings of Philly, and a few adjoin counties, in hopes of I guess, enticing "urbanites" into fishing. Does anybody believe fishing/hunting, and the outdoor recreation sports, are "bred in" to these urban candidates. GEEEEEEEEZ !
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Last edited by Fleroo; 08-25-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 01:44 PM
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Don't sugar coat it, tell them exactly what you think Fleroo. Glad somebody is paying attention.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 02:10 PM
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The original post is full of way out of context nonsense! The term Great White Fleet has long been widely used by everyone from outdoor writers to anglers to PFBC officials. Arway's use of it is in no way mocking or derogatory.

PA is indeed blessed with a tremendous amount of trout streams, and a good number of them offer good wild trout fishing. Yet, I'm always amazed at how many Pennsylvanians don't realize this, especially some of the excellent wild trout fishing opportunities right near their own backyards. I enjoy trout fishing, any trout fishing, but I prefer to catch wild trout when I have the opportunity. I appreciate the stocking program but I am sometimes dismayed by how many people I meet that think a local stream only has trout in it because "the state stocks it." The Wild Trout Summit is certainly not designed as a move to end stocking. Here's what it's actually about: "this will bring agency, academic & TU experts together to present and discuss the past, present & future of PA's wild trout resources."

Further, "speakers will present information on the history of wild trout management, the Unassessed Wild Trout Waters Initiative, special regs for wild trout, and how environmental permit review affects wild trout protection.

In addition, there will be presentations on potential impacts of climate change, the PFBCs wild trout stream habitat improvement priorities, the DCNR wild trout management plan and Implications of genetics on wild trout management.

There will also be a Q & A panel discussion."

Have a good one folks!

Hunt, Fish, Vote! I support AR and Sunday hunting. Life Member of NRA and TU.

Last edited by RyanR; 08-25-2017 at 02:17 PM.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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The original post is full of way out of context nonsense!

Of course, you are free to feel however you choose, and formulate opinions that represent such. The commission has been hampered by bad decisions recently. And while I feel the pain of operating under fiscal constraints, one of those bad decisions, was the E.D. stating he did not want to see a license increase, because it typically adversely affect license sales.


FURTHERMORE, there is nothing the PFBC would like more, than to shutter it's remaining hatcheries, and abort the stocking of Trout altogether. Thus, getting out from under the burden of expense, and allocation of equipment/manpower. This, as I said, is the "warming" to that notion. There is no mention of repairing infrastructure of what hatcheries do remain, to become more compliant with DEP/EPA regulations. Any Trout stocking, will soon be left to private hatcheries. The PFBC should be doing everything it can, to promote it's stocking program, not run it down with ill-thought quotes. This will be the death siren of the PFBC as we currently know it.


And yes, have a good one folks !

2A-Wash. Co.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fleroo View Post
Of course, you are free to feel however you choose, and formulate opinions that represent such. The commission has been hampered by bad decisions recently. And while I feel the pain of operating under fiscal constraints, one of those bad decisions, was the E.D. stating he did not want to see a license increase, because it typically adversely affect license sales.


FURTHERMORE, there is nothing the PFBC would like more, than to shutter it's remaining hatcheries, and abort the stocking of Trout altogether. Thus, getting out from under the burden of expense, and allocation of equipment/manpower. This, as I said, is the "warming" to that notion. There is no mention of repairing infrastructure of what hatcheries do remain, to become more compliant with DEP/EPA regulations. Any Trout stocking, will soon be left to private hatcheries. The PFBC should be doing everything it can, to promote it's stocking program, not run it down with ill-thought quotes. This will be the death siren of the PFBC as we currently know it.


And yes, have a good one folks !
Did you ever think the reason repairing hatchery infrastructure to become more compliant with DEP/EPA regulations wasn't mentioned is because it's a Wild Trout Summit, with the emphasis on "Wild"? They didn't mention anything about smallmouth bass or the NFL either, likely because neither have anything to do with the Wild Trout Summit. Pretty simple concept for someone with a clear mind and no ax to grind.

Personally, I think John Arway has done a very good job. The people who have not done a good job are the "sportsmen," both hunters and fishermen, who have complained to their legislators and have kept the Pennsylvania Game Commission and, by default, the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission, from getting license increases for too many years. Had license increases been granted I don't think the trout stocking program would be in jeopardy. Blame the "sportsmen" for their shortsightedness, not the PFBC.

I can be contacted at [email protected].
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 08:31 PM
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I don't think there is any danger of trout stocking being stopped. Although I prefer to fish for wild trout, I agree there is definitely a place for stocked trout in PA in streams where there are few wild trout. I don't think trout should be stocked in streams that have a class A wild trout population or even class B. Many class B streams have become class A after stocking was stopped. That would leave more trout to be stocked in the more marginal streams.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 09:22 PM
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Fleroo,

If you were to become the Executive Director of the PFBC, what would your top five goals be and how would you go about achieving them?

I can be contacted at [email protected].
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 11:29 AM
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Wow talk about a true sky is falling post complete with threats to destroy other posters wild trout waters lol. I like ya Fleroo, always have, but that post is sooooo far out into left field it's almost difficult to respond to. The PAFBC will never stop stocking in your life time. They may reduce stocking but youll always have your place to chase the pellet heads man. You won't have to hammer all of Troutdoorsmans trout waters.

And Frank hits it directly on the head. It's not Arways fault they don't stock like they used to. Its the cheap do-nothing want-everything sportsman that are killing what you love. Fight for higher license fees, not Arway getting fired. He's doing a fine job.

And lastly, you give 95% of trout fisherman far too much credit. First off 75% of trout fishing would instantly quit if stocking stopped so your gloom and doom beatin down banks thought is flushed right there. Second, more and more people practice catch and release each year. I haven't seen a single person with a dead trout since May. That trend will continue..... especially when they drop the limit to 2 trout after stocking ends (which would almost certainly happen). Finally. Of the 25% of trout fishing left, 90% of them are just plain terrible fisherman and of no threat what's so ever to wild trout waters. They'll catch few here and there but for the most part guys are clueless on a wild trout stream.

Listen my friend. Take a deep breath and relax. Your stocking program is just fine. Get out there and fight for a $$$ increase for the license so it'll stay that way.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 12:36 PM
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Arway's not the best Director the PFBC ever had but I don't think he's the worst. I disagree with some things he's done but he's done one or two good things. I agree that lowering license prices didn't make sense and I'm not sure the multi-year licenses are a good financial move for them. As far as trout fishing goes I could see the PFBC cut down or eliminate some trout stocking in the northern tier counties. I never could figure out why they stock so many trout streams up there. Sure, the water quality is excellent but the counties are sparsely populated and there are enough wild trout up there for the few locals to pursue. I hear stories where guys go out on opening day there and don't see another fisherman or only see a handful of fishermen. If fishing pressure is that light then why bother stocking there at all? Seems to be a waste of fish. Most of the stocked trout should be placed in the SE and SC streams. Even if the water quality is only marginal there that is where the most people live.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 05:37 PM
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Arway's not the best Director the PFBC ever had but I don't think he's the worst. I disagree with some things he's done but he's done one or two good things. I agree that lowering license prices didn't make sense and I'm not sure the multi-year licenses are a good financial move for them. As far as trout fishing goes I could see the PFBC cut down or eliminate some trout stocking in the northern tier counties. I never could figure out why they stock so many trout streams up there. Sure, the water quality is excellent but the counties are sparsely populated and there are enough wild trout up there for the few locals to pursue. I hear stories where guys go out on opening day there and don't see another fisherman or only see a handful of fishermen. If fishing pressure is that light then why bother stocking there at all? Seems to be a waste of fish. Most of the stocked trout should be placed in the SE and SC streams. Even if the water quality is only marginal there that is where the most people live.
I think Arway has done a good job for the most part.

I have no issue with stocking streams in any part of the state if they are marginal stream sections that hold few wild trout but are popular trout streams. I don't agree with discontinuing stocking in whole regions just because they are less populated than others. I think stocking should be based on stream habitat, density of wild trout population, and expected use. Some streams in rural areas still get heavy use. For example in the north central, Pine Creek from the gorge down to Waterville has few wild trout and depends on stocked trout. Pine Creek is a destination stream that draws anglers from long distances and not just PA. The First Fork of Sinnemahoning Creek has a DHALO area which is extremely popular, but it needs to be stocked to provide trout fishing. The NW part of the state is not heavily populated either, but there are marginal streams like Oil Creek that would not support trout without stocking. In the SW, which I'm not as familiar with, has streams in the Pittsburgh area which also need to be stocked.

The SE and SC parts of the state are more populated but the SE has quite a few good wild trout streams, more than most people think.
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