It happened AGAIN! - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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It happened AGAIN!

This season is shaping up the same as last year. History, last day of late muzzy last year I shot a doe that I tracked for 2 hours(easily a mile or two). Lost it when it crossed a creek that I had no way around. Yesterday I walked up on a mom with little ones. When I shot it dropped and thrashed around. By the time I had the gun reloaded it jumped up and went trotting(kinda funny) down through the woods. I had blood where it was thrashing, but only found a few drops in the dirt(leaves have only started coming down). Jumped them once, mom and two little ones. I waited an hour and went back at it. No sign of blood so my dad and I started walking. Looked for two hours with nothing. Went home to drop some clothes and thought there was a spot where deer liked to bed that we didn't check. Went back out to check that area. Low and behold I found a mom and one little one. Yep I shot the wrong dang deer, but it's dead somewhere just not where they bedded. So got a crew and started searching again. Covered about every square inch of that woods with nothing. Called it off another hour and a half and said the yotes will be eating good.

Now, I'm really disappointed in the performance from last year and now. The gun shoots great, but I'm questioning the balls I'm using. We've always used the Hornady swagged balls with good luck. But I'm thinking that because they are pure lead and flatten on contact with anything are they the best idea. I'm wondering if using a slightly harder alloy of lead will get more penetration. I know that the deer my dad and I have shot we've found the ball flat as a pancake still in the deer. The one I keep on my desk still has the pattern of the patch imprinted in the slightly rounded side where the powder charge imprinted it in the lead.

I don't know I'm just really down and miffed right now. Almost wrapped the gun around a tree yesterday. Seriously, I had it by the business end and wound up, just couldn't swing.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 01:44 PM
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sounds like a shot placement issue IMO.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 03:17 PM
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Not saying I'm right, but sometimes things happen.

A muzzleloader needs to be cold and clean after the initial shoot, adjust sights, swab, reload, shoot, to get things hitting where we want. That cold and clean with three shot, no swab between shots, the next day, is only to varify that the first shot will go where aimed, and the charge is the best for that gun.

EXAMPLE: Saturday is sight in day, swabbing between shots, and eventually everything seems to come together.
Sunday. First, (fouling round) is lower than sighted, next two string upwards. Too much powder, and the bore condition on Saturday was more fouled than you thought. You need another cold clean range test after adjusting the sights and dropping the powder charge at least 5 grs. For saboted rounds bullet wt is wrong.

Just had this happen with the barrel Lyman replaced for that recall, and once before with a T/C. Took four trips to finally arrive at 90 grs FFG under .535 RB with .015 patch full pan of FFFFG. All lube must be dry patched out before the first shot or POI is only guesswork, and NEVER dry patch a fouled bore, only a clean bore prior to fouling round.

Initially was a 7" spread @ 50 yds, the final load was under one inch CTC.

Hope I am wrong about this being the problem, but you seem understandably very frustrated, and this could be somewhere to start.

Remember.... they're full time deer......we're part time hunters!

Last edited by flintlock hunter; 10-20-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 03:36 PM
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The question on the round ball quality. Hornady has very good quality, as does Speer. The humble little round ball is made of pure lead, and despite the idea it is ballistically inferior to litterally all other bullets it shares in common with the bumblebee that no one ever told it that bumble bees are areodynamically unable to fly, and the round ball is soooo inferior.

Well, bumble bees fly, and a properly placed ball makes deer very dead. In fact, the only way to improve on the short range efficiency of the lowly round ball is to increase the size, and mass, because truth be known, pure lead is the most reliable bullet material, never breaks up, rarely fails.
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Remember.... they're full time deer......we're part time hunters!
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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IMO, the 20th shot from a ML should load and shoot the same as the first all the time with no swabbing. if you have to clean between shots, then keep searching for that "right" load, it is out there, you just need to find it shot placement maybe TJ?
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
IMO, the 20th shot from a ML should load and shoot the same as the first all the time with no swabbing. if you have to clean between shots, then keep searching for that "right" load, it is out there, you just need to find it shot placement maybe TJ?
.
You got my vote! I only manage 3-5 between cleaning at the range. After that I've found the heavy 90-120gr FFG charges build up too much fouling. If I really wanted to spend a day at the range I figure 50-70 grs FFFG for the main charge would probably work out, but my flinters are primarily hunting guns that I load with the FFG.

I've read a lot of the black powder guys on HPA like FFFG for even their hunting loads, but I would rather spend the extra time setting up my guns for the FFG charges. I guess to each his own.
Elaines Thunderhawke perfers Pyrodex Select, and she could shoot all day with that one if she wanted, since fouling build up is even less than FFFG

Remember.... they're full time deer......we're part time hunters!
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 07:44 PM
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I am no expert by any means. I started shooting & hunting with a muzzle loader when PA 1st opened a season for deer with one.
I bought a TC Hawkin 50 & was disappointed with the accuracy. an old timer that had been using black powder guns longer than

PA had a season was at the range one day when I was struggling to find a load for my 50.


he gave me a few pointers & things started to get better. one thing he stated was that trying to be totally traditional will not always work.ut
staying close to tradition he gave a suggestion of using 3F & a patched round ball pre-lubed with T/C #13.
my TC shot extremely well with 90 grains of 3F & a pre lubed .010 patch.
plus I could shoot all day as the pre lubed patch helped to clean the bore when loading.


as you all know, you need to find the magic combination for each gun..... so keep on trying .....

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 07:48 PM
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Exactly^^^
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 08:02 PM
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I have .32's, .36, .45, .50 and a couple .62's and shoot 3f in all of them. I also blow down the barrel after every shot. same with the .40's and .54's I have shot or helped people get sighted in. Its a time thing. It worked 200 years ago a still does today. we tend to complicate things these days that really aren't complicated at all.
bohunr, crazyjjk, Ron pa and 2 others like this.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 08:44 PM
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You really are more accomplished and experienced than I am. But I think the purpose here is helping TJ straighten out his problem, once we find what it is. I just had an idea to get the ball rolling.

Sorry you think I complicate things, I just do what works for me, and if I might help someone else, as I also have done in the past, I'll try.

Remember.... they're full time deer......we're part time hunters!
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