Switch from 3F to 2F - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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Switch from 3F to 2F

I've been shooting 60 grains of 3F in my T/C Hawken for quite a few years now. POI with conicals and PRB's is practically identical. My concern is I always lose some powder out of my vent liner (RMC), I believe stepping up to 2F would solve this.

Approximately how much do I need to increase my charge to keep velocity close if I decide to switch?

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 07:59 AM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Start out with 80 grains measurement of 2f and move upwards from there if things indicate you need to. You should be in the ball park for a similar velocity. I would place a higher value on the point of impact as you work up this new load. JMHO.

You have a vent liner that is said to be "self priming". In the off season, you may want to consider replacing that liner with a Jim Chambers White Lighting. It will require drilling out the threads of the old hole and tapping new threads. It would solve your problem allowing you to back to the 3F. I can guarantee, that ignition time will not be compromised.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 04:35 PM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

For what it's worth, it's pretty well commonly held that you have to step way up in grains if you go from FFFg to FFg, but I've not found that to be true (though I don't chronograph all of my loads). I find very little difference in the two granulations if we're talking about larger (.50 and .54 caliber) rifles. Check out Fadala's Lyman handbook and you'll see that velocities are similar between the two and the FFg often has a HIGHER velocity than FFFg. Pressures are higher with FFFg but for practical purposes on deer, I think the FFg is fine in larger calibers, though obviously each rifle is different. I've been a hardcore FFFg guy my whole life and used it in all my guns, even the .54 calibers, but I just built myself a new flintlock and also built one for my son and I'm finding excellent accuracy with similar FFg loads to what I used to use in FFFg.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 05:31 PM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Chuck Dixon once shared that going from 2Fg to 3Fg would equate to @ 80-85% load. Flipping that, 3Fg to 2Fg would equate to @117-125%.

100gr. 3Fg = 117-125gr. 2Fg (120)
90gr. 3Fg = 105.3-112.5gr. 2Fg (110gr.)
80gr. 3Fg = 93.6-100gr. 2Fg (95)

I round up, you can do that, round down, or try to figure 93.6gr in a 10gr incremental measure.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 11:17 PM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Here is a load chart.

http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 07:38 AM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ragosta
For what it's worth, it's pretty well commonly held that you have to step way up in grains if you go from FFFg to FFg, but I've not found that to be true (though I don't chronograph all of my loads). I find very little difference in the two granulations if we're talking about larger (.50 and .54 caliber) rifles. Check out Fadala's Lyman handbook and you'll see that velocities are similar between the two and the FFg often has a HIGHER velocity than FFFg. Pressures are higher with FFFg but for practical purposes on deer, I think the FFg is fine in larger calibers, though obviously each rifle is different. I've been a hardcore FFFg guy my whole life and used it in all my guns, even the .54 calibers, but I just built myself a new flintlock and also built one for my son and I'm finding excellent accuracy with similar FFg loads to what I used to use in FFFg.
You are correct. I spent a little time cross referencing the Lyman handbook with other load data and the same measurement of 2F vs 3F will result with about the same velocity and muzzle energy. The barrel pressure of course is higher with 3F vs 2F.

I suggested 80 grains 2F will be in the same velocity ballpark as 60 grains FFF and I was wrong.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 09:39 AM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Maple
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ragosta
For what it's worth, it's pretty well commonly held that you have to step way up in grains if you go from FFFg to FFg, but I've not found that to be true (though I don't chronograph all of my loads). I find very little difference in the two granulations if we're talking about larger (.50 and .54 caliber) rifles. Check out Fadala's Lyman handbook and you'll see that velocities are similar between the two and the FFg often has a HIGHER velocity than FFFg. Pressures are higher with FFFg but for practical purposes on deer, I think the FFg is fine in larger calibers, though obviously each rifle is different. I've been a hardcore FFFg guy my whole life and used it in all my guns, even the .54 calibers, but I just built myself a new flintlock and also built one for my son and I'm finding excellent accuracy with similar FFg loads to what I used to use in FFFg.
You are correct. I spent a little time cross referencing the Lyman handbook with other load data and the same measurement of 2F vs 3F will result with about the same velocity and muzzle energy. The barrel pressure of course is higher with 3F vs 2F.

I suggested 80 grains 2F will be in the same velocity ballpark as 60 grains FFF and I was wrong.
Thanks for doing the homework and acknowledging that. I'm not an expert for sure, but I've messed around with these things for 30+ years and I've recently gotten a lot more involved as I've become a more competent builder of flintlocks. I find that a lot of people are given false information which is passed off as gospel and they end up either wasting money (powder), ruining their groups or teaching themselves to flinch because they try to stuff way more powder than they need down the barrel. Good discussion though.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 10:20 AM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

The .535, 220 grain RBs in the Lyman data must have gotten a Sargent Major haircut when they cut the sprue off. Everyone else has the .530 at 230 grains. Of course they probably keyhole worse than the 220's.....
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Good info so far, thanks!

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-16-2015, 02:34 PM
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Re: Switch from 3F to 2F

Don't know if it'll help or not....


But I shot 70gr of 3f with a Buffalo Ball-et.....90gr with a PRB gives same POI as far as I can hold groups....


I do loose a little powder out of the vent but its minimal...



Brain fart....of course that doesn't help...you wanna shoot 2F.....sorry...
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