Stream crossing? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Stream crossing?

I need to cross a small seasonal stream for a access trail. It mostly runs dry in the summer. It's 5ft wide, couple inches deep. Water is supplied to it by overflow of a neighbors pond 1/4 mile up the road and by drainage culverts that run under the road. The approach is fine, but I need to knock the bank down about 3-4 feet on the opposite side. I don't think I need a permit. According to this. Can someone verify me on this?

025 PA Code 105.12 waiver of permit requirement.
(9) construction and maintenance of ford crossings.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 03:59 PM
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sorry no 100% here, but my suggestion would be make sure you check with a lawyer, water crossing in PA can be NUTS and fines even crazier, I would want to make sure I had 100% certain 100% correct info from a legal source that could back it up, rather than off a forum, the penalties can be costly
I have seen farmers that crossed streams for yrs get into troubles, timber guys pay HUGE fines and moneys for permits on silly things, so please be careful here

best of luck to you, and sorry if I am, not help, just don't want to see any one get into trouble!
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:09 PM
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This can get ugly in a hurry depending on your neighbors. We once had a parcel of land under contract....and to get to it, the ROW crossed over a small trickle of a stream - less than two foot in width 97% of the year, and no water when it was dry. The ROW crossed through the land of a power-tripping PA State Trooper, and he made it as difficult as possible to get anything accomplished.

We ended up having to apply for a GP-7 Ford Minor Road Crossing Permit with the DEP. If everything is good to go on the first attempt, it will likely take 60-90 days to get the permit approved through DEP....then permit holder has 2 or 3 years (memory is fading) to complete the project. Required info includes: stream name, Chapter 93 Stream designation, stream impact dimensions, etc.

I can send you a bunch of information on that if you need it. Good luck with the project!
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Theirs already a logging road crossing the stream elsewhere. The guys who previously leased the place used it to access for years. But it runs right through my sanctuary (40-50 acre ridge top). Really don't want to be driving around up there every time.
I was gonna grade the bank so it looks real natural. Jeez, Is it illegal to drive a vehicle through water?
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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O, there is no ROW. This is just for perimeter access on my own land.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:48 PM
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From what I gathered, the biggest issue is the sediment that you stir up from the stream bottom driving through the water. They don't want the sediment going downstream. The plan we submitted basically lined by the bottom of the stream bed with stone to reduce the amount of sediment stirred up. I think the actual implementation of our plan would have been the easiest part, as compared to the tedious work of preparing the permit with drawings and sketches...and dealing with the DEP.

Even if the stream is on your land, if the wrong neighbor or passer-by sees you crossing it in a vehicle without a proper crossing in place, it could lead to some issues for you. You may want to give your local conservation district guy/gal a call. Ours (Cumberland County in this case) was very reasonable and helpful when the state trooper tried to put a stop to us installing a vehicle crossing. You should be able to get a feel for what you need from him/her....because if someone were to report you in the future, he/she might be the one to come out to check on it.

Good luck.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks O, definitely don't need a fine. I read that you have to line the bottom with gravel and <10% grade for 50 ft from the bank, seems simple enough.
I've already been using the existing crossing though. I'm sure they'll see that when they inspect the creek. I'm getting a bad feeling about this.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 06:33 PM
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also, JUST cause there is a pre existing crossing area, doesn't mean its still a current ABLE to use crossing site,
timber guys tend to get them for a short period of time only and then there NO longer a valid crossing spot.
its one of them things too, that NO one know's, NO one cares, but IF< someone pushes the issue or cry's
it can open a big can of worms and that can lead to a bunch of fines of crazy amounts!
I have seen very good timber site on off side of a small creek that the permits were so high to get, the timber wasn't worth getting to! and I'm talking 15+ acres of 60-80 yr old standing timber???
water is a crazy deal here in PA
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 07:53 PM
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Call your local fish warden. He will be able to tell you what you need to know. Much less hassel than dealing with other agencys.

As a logger, we always bridge streams, permit or not we cannot run thru them. And the banks are as off limits as the streambed itself, be very careful about your entry and exit. Our permits require an erosion and sedimintation plan, and require us to spell out exactly how the area will be restored when we're done, and notify our comservation district when completed so they can be inspected.

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Last edited by yellodog; 01-06-2017 at 08:02 PM.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 08:31 PM
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What vehicle are you crossing with? How often do you cross?

Traditions only last if you pass them down to your kids!
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