Gun Debate - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Gun Debate

Now I don't want to start a big argument here but I was wondering how all of us here stand on a certain issue.

That issue is the age old debate aver slow moving, large, round nosed bullets and the calibers that shoot them vs the high velocity, ballistic tip bullets and the calibers that shoot them.

This debate keeps popping up among my friends and family and I was wondering how some others feel.

Some seem to think that the slow moving calibers are optimal because they "spend more time inside the animal and use all their energy there". They claim that the high velocity bullets just "zip right through" animals and produce little damage.

Now I have to admit that I am on the high velocity "magnum" side of the fence but I do not have anything against the .45-70s, .30-30s, .444s, under 100 yards in the deer woods in this state.

I have shot deer with a .300 Savage, 7mm Mag, and .300 Remington Ultra Mag and from my experience the RUM puts things down right on the spot. Every deer that I have shot with my Savage has ran at least 30 yards or more before dropping. I know, I know they are still dead no matter what but that isn't what I am discussing.

I fully believe the hydrostatic shock theory and the massive shock and damage that medium weight, high velocity bullets have on game. Again, nothing against the slow moving calibers as they are effective in getting the job done.

I just don't buy into the theory that slow moving bullets "spend more time" in the animal, thus does more damage by using all of its energy. Figure out the kinetic energy numbers for a 180 grain bullet traveling at 3500 fps (4895.2 ft/lbs) vs a 300 grain bullet traveling at 1800 fps (2157 ft/lbs). Look at the "wound channel" on ballistic gel blocks when shot with high velocity rounds as compared to the slow moving heavy bullets.

Again, please don't misconstrue this as me putting down those slow calibers. They are effective game getters and will continue to be for years to come. Just wanting a friendly debate here.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 01:16 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

I prefer the ones that only kill on the business end. Big or small if they kill on both ends I am done with them.

P.S. The monkey really freaks DennyF out
If you stand in front of tanks the tanks are gonna win.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 01:23 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

heres my take on it,slow bullets that are heavy for caliber, will penetrate deeper, a super fast magnum will produce a ton of hydrostatic energy,i also lean on the fast bullet, to due explosive damage inside a animal,so in that thought i think fast is good, but depends on what animal, for deer and likes i go with very fast light to medium bullets, for bear always go with huge frontal dia, bullets always, but if you where to go to garettcartridges and read his penetration test on slow and fast bullets, slow heavy wins all the time, but you got to take in consideration the roy weatherby hydrostatic shock which does exist, good post traskoutdoors,
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Gun Debate

Fair enough. No sense in shooting a gun that makes you uncomfortable.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 01:40 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

Some rifles require large roundnose bullets , such as the 30-30 lever actionsthe way they have to loaded in the weapon..
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 01:58 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

I have always thought that "what" animal you are shooting is much more important. Match your gun to your game, don't try to stretch the gun into a hunt its not good for. That being said, I have witnessed my 300 Weatherby lift a deer off its feet upon impact and launch it into the air. On the flipside, my .338-06 will crumple a deer in its tracks, but without the visible devastation of the Weatherby. Neither round is remotely necessary for deer, but they kill in different manners. If I only had one choice, I would go with high velocity for big game.

"Be nice, until its time to not be nice" (Patrick Swayze...Roadhouse)
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 02:09 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

I like big, fast-moving bullets !!

Why have to choose ?? Best of both worlds !!

demokraten saugen
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

Short of a spine hit, every deer I've shot with my .308 has ran a minimum of 100 yards.

OTOH, every deer I've shot with my 45-70 has either dropped right in it's tracks (or maybe flipped first) or at most, gone 50 yards with a very obvious blood trail. And I've had the same experience when shooting one with my 44-Mag at close range.

And again, deer shot with my 6.5 have not dropped right in their tracks unless spined.

So, based on my amateur observations, big bullets with big energy put 'em down quick. Pointy bullets with big energy seem to cut right through 'em and not discharge all of their energy in the deer.

But, that's my opinion.

SW
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 02:11 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

There is no such bullet as a brushbuster.Any bullet that hits any size twigg WILL CHANGE Course...A high speed bullet may change at more of an angle or keyhole but the twigg will effect any bullet.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-31-2012, 02:18 AM
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Re: Gun Debate

I love 30-30,s and a perfect example with shootin game compared to a hi speed cal is a quote I often made.With a slow fat bullit it hits like a sledge hammer.With a hi speed cal it,s like a fencin sword.
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