Solid Copper vs Lead - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Solid Copper vs Lead

So I finally ran out of the boxes of Remington Premier Swift Scirrocco 180 grain ammo that I had for my .300 Ultra Mag. Those were the only shells I’ve ever used in my gun and I was pleased with their performance.

I found out that they have been discontinued for whatever reason. I went down to my local gun store and all he had were the Barnes Vor-Tx solid copper bullets in 180 grain. I’ve hears that the copper bullets are longer than the lead ones to get to the same weight and thus it changes the BC.

Is this true? Is there any advantages or disadvantsges to copper?

I’ve found some ammo suppliers online that claim to still have some of the Premier ammo in stock so maybe I’ll try that route instead...
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 05:19 AM
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Doubletap ammo on line has sirocco's for the 300 ultra.

My 700 long range loved them.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I just looked it up and they have them listed as “Swift Scirocco II”.

I found out that they discontinued them but then brought them back this year. No longer have Power Level ammo but the Premier Swift Scirocco bonded bullets.

Is this the new version or are these old Power Level 2 loads?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUGLE BOY View Post
So I finally ran out of the boxes of Remington Premier Swift Scirrocco 180 grain ammo that I had for my .300 Ultra Mag. Those were the only shells I’ve ever used in my gun and I was pleased with their performance.

I found out that they have been discontinued for whatever reason. I went down to my local gun store and all he had were the Barnes Vor-Tx solid copper bullets in 180 grain. I’ve hears that the copper bullets are longer than the lead ones to get to the same weight and thus it changes the BC.

Is this true? Is there any advantages or disadvantsges to copper?

I’ve found some ammo suppliers online that claim to still have some of the Premier ammo in stock so maybe I’ll try that route instead...
remington just reintroduced that line again.
https://www.remington.com/news/2018/...fle-ammunition

lead is denser then copper, so therefore to make the mass equal the copper bullets are longer. it can change the BC. the normal line of thought with all copper bullets is lighter and faster. you can use a lighter all copper bullet then a lead core but that bullet needs to be moving faster. you have to keep in mind min. expansion velocity when using all copper. some require 2000 fps at impact to expand, and probably wont expand if you hit a shoulder. i hunt with both all copper and lead cored. one advantage of the copper is weight retention is very high unless the bullet is designed to fragment. Lead bullets commonly fragment partially on impact. one disadvantage is the need to be sure of range and impact velocity. Price is one very big issue for most people. On average the cheapest all copper bullets are gonna be 50-65% higher priced. If you handload you can make them cheaper but lead will still be cheaper. While there is concerns about the lead being toxic from hunters, copper can also be toxic if ingested. but this is a concerns for several lead alternatives.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 09:43 AM
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Two years ago I switched to copper in my .308 for an elk hunt. I will never go back to lead. True, they cost more, a lot more, but the accuracy and performance were so much better, not to mention the benefits of not having lead fragments in whatever is left behind.

You certainly won't notice the accuracy difference at 100 yards, but it was abundantly clear in my experience at 200 and especially 300. I never had any problem knocking deer right down with lead (typically 150 grain core-lokt) but the copper is clearly better given the results I've had in the field.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 10:09 AM
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Been thinking about switching to copper. I read more good than bad.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 10:10 AM
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I switched to all copper bullets a few years back (Barnes TSX). I load my own. I can say I had no problem with accuracy in my 30-06 loads. In checking, the all coppers had almost 100% weight retention. That means there was almost no loss of bullet material. The best I ever had with lead was around 83%. So if lead in your meat is a concern, go all copper. I also found that all copper bullets usually give a complete pass through on deer sized game on broadside shots. So the energy transfer is higher with lead core bullets. That said, I still have never lost a deer while using all coppers. So, all-in-all, I will stick with all copper.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:15 PM
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I can see the benefits of both and use both but while most of my shooting is with lead bullets I have hunted with brass ones for the last 4 years. I have been using the 145gr Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos bullets with good results and have killed 4 deer all of which were quick or instantaneous kills.

I also have a buddy that swears by the Barnes x bullet and shoots them exclusively in most of his rifles. He has killed a pile of deer over the years including a 250+ lb buck up in Canada so his experience speaks for itself.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 03:06 PM
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you that mean that cuppy thing on the back of my lead boolits?


copper gas checks (including aluminium) are the only thing that i shoot. i use plain base boolits too.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 06:41 AM
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I hate to say it, but the writing is on the wall. We will all be using copper, or some other non-lead material, bullets sooner than later. It's already here in Germany, and I've been using copper for a few years now. I've shot quite a few deer, including a Red deer cow, and have seen no performance issues with the copper. Same with accuracy on the range, out to 100 meters. Like lead bullets, there are some copper bullets that are better than others. I've shot the Barnes X and the Winchester 95/5 out of my .308 and have had good performance. I'd still feel more comfortable with a Nosler Partition, though, which might just be this head that doesn't like to change.

As I said, the writing is on the wall. The PGC Facebook page has made several posts over the past few weeks talking of the "bad" from lead fragments ingested by eagles and other raptors. You guys might want to start trying some copper out sooner than later.

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