Hornady American Gunner Ammo? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Hornady American Gunner Ammo?

I just got a 6.5 creedmoor and was wondering if anyone had any experience with using the Hornady American Gunner Ammo for hunting. 140gr, HPBT. Or what ammo other 6.5 creedmoor shooters use for deer hunting.
Thanks for the feedback!!
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 02:27 PM
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I was in the local gun shop & a guy came in to buy more of the Federal Fusion in 140 gr for his gun in 6.5 creedmore.
said it shot the best out of the 3 that he tried & wasted the ground hogs. the worst group was a clover leaf.
he cant wait for deer season.


just remember, you may not get the same results in your gun

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 10:30 PM
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Have shot it in a Ruger Precision Rifle and a Browning X-Bolt, both are sub half MOA with several groups hovering around 1/4 MOA in both rifles. It has no right to shoot as good as it does for the cost at $0.70 to $0.80 a round. For target ammo I haven’t found anything better.

However for hunting I would reccomend the Hornady Precision Hunter ammo with the 143gr ELD-X. The 140gr HPBT is a poor choice for hunting as it rarely expands and tends to pencil through game.
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Last edited by CMP70306; 06-12-2018 at 10:33 PM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CMP70306 View Post
The 140gr HPBT is a poor choice for hunting as it rarely expands and tends to pencil through game.
The first part of this sentence is correct, but the second part is way off base. Hollow point (HP) bullets should not be used for big game hunting, but for the exact opposite reason. They will easily break apart and offer very poor penetration. That bullet will explode like a mini hand grenade the minute it hits its mark. They are capable of killing deer with ideal shots (drop them stone cold dead in their tracks), but can lead to lost animals very easily if any bone is encountered.

Hollow points should be relegated to varmint/target shooting. At one time they were favored by some shooting long range at deer sized game, but there are much better bullets for that now days.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 01:12 AM
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IM SO Glad Simoncool and CMP said it.... I got murdered for telling a guy on FB not to use a HPBT in 300 Blackout for deer. They are good for varmints, paper and people (Military/ LE precision). Can't go wrong with that ELD-X in 6.5.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CMP70306 View Post
The 140gr HPBT is a poor choice for hunting as it rarely expands and tends to pencil through game.
[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.huntingpa.com/forums/images/Huntingpa_toucan/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png[/IMG] The first part of this sentence is correct, but the second part is way off base. Hollow point (HP) bullets should not be used for big game hunting, but for the exact opposite reason. They will easily break apart and offer very poor penetration. That bullet will explode like a mini hand grenade the minute it hits its mark. They are capable of killing deer with ideal shots (drop them stone cold dead in their tracks), but can lead to lost animals very easily if any bone is encountered.

Hollow points should be relegated to varmint/target shooting. At one time they were favored by some shooting long range at deer sized game, but there are much better bullets for that now days.
I must clarify I was referring specifically to the Hornady Match BTHP bullets. Due to their heavier jacket construction (along with the Sierra MatchKing) they tend to produce unpredictable results ranging from total fragmentation to pencil point wounding.

As for HP bullets their are two different styles, Varmint and Match. The Varmint style bullets are light weight with paper thin jackets designed to be shot at high velocity to transfer all of their energy to the target and disintegrate upon impact. The match ones are a different animal entirely as jacket thickness, and terminal performance, varies by bullet even among the same manufacturer. They are designed generally heavy for caliber specifically to fly through the air as consistently as possibly and the HP is simply a result of the manufacturing process rather than serving a specific purpose. This is why the closed HP Nosler RDF line exists and the reason competitors close the HPs to point the bullets and increase BC.

While they were not designed for it some Match bullets work well on game such as the Bergers and A-Max/ELD-M while others do not such as the Hornady BTHP Match and the Sierra MatchKing. If you look over at the Long Range hunting sites the Berger and other Tipped Match bullets are still the preffered bullet for the 500+ yard crowd.

The reason for it is rather straight forward, at extended ranges when velocity tapers off so does the hydrostatic shock produced by the bullet. With conventional bullets this results in less and less damage and a delayed killing the farther you go. In order to overcome the loss in hydrostatic shock you require fragmentation to increase the size of the permanent wound cavity. Additionally at longer ranges the bullets used are typically heavy for caliber which helps to maintain weight for penetration. For example in my .300 WM I shoot 212gr and 225gr bullets, even if you lose 40% of the bullet weight on impact you still have a 135gr projectile moving through the animal.

The issues arises when these match bullets are utilized on game at close range with a high muzzle velocity. At long range enough energy has bled off to allow a large chunk of the base to penetrate like a conventional bullet. However up close they can be pushed past their limit to the point of total failure as you stated above. That is the reason for the ELD-X, it has a thicker base and interlock ring to help retain weight to aid penetration on close range impacts while still allowing for the necessary fragmentation at longer ranges.

Well to make a long story short the main point is that certain match bullets can be used to great effect but just like any other bullet they have to be used within their limitations. The Hornady Match BTHP is not one of those bullets but the ELD-X and ELD-M are.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Pahack View Post
IM SO Glad Simoncool and CMP said it.... I got murdered for telling a guy on FB not to use a HPBT in 300 Blackout for deer. They are good for varmints, paper and people (Military/ LE precision). Can't go wrong with that ELD-X in 6.5.
I’m guessing he wanted to use one of the 200+gr Match bullets at subsonic velocities at which point you would be right and he is an idiot. Most bullets do not expand at such low velocities and would leave only a small entrance and exit. He would be much better off ponying up the money for a Lehigh Defense or Cutting Edge Bullet specifically designed for subsonic expansion and treating it like bow hunting where you shoot and wait.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 11:12 AM
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The issues arises when these match bullets are utilized on game at close range with a high muzzle velocity. At long range enough energy has bled off to allow a large chunk of the base to penetrate like a conventional bullet. However up close they can be pushed past their limit to the point of total failure as you stated above. That is the reason for the ELD-X, it has a thicker base and interlock ring to help retain weight to aid penetration on close range impacts while still allowing for the necessary fragmentation at longer ranges.
....and these are the exact conditions you are most likely to encounter in PA. I am aware that match HP bullets have heavier jacket construction than those designed for varminting, but they are still a poor choice for big game. Especially at normal PA ranges. And at such ranges I would not expect pencil poke through wound channels.

As you stated the ELD-X is a much better choice. I would never even consider a HPBT for PA deer.

Last edited by simoncool; 06-13-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 12:46 AM
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Iím guessing he wanted to use one of the 200+gr Match bullets at subsonic velocities at which point you would be right and he is an idiot. Most bullets do not expand at such low velocities and would leave only a small entrance and exit. He would be much better off ponying up the money for a Lehigh Defense or Cutting Edge Bullet specifically designed for subsonic expansion and treating it like bow hunting where you shoot and wait.
I use the 194 Max Expansion by Lehigh or 200 Maker for subs. And as you stated, your bowhunting with a rifle. I would never use a HPBT for any big game, but I will sling one at a yote. People often confuse the Berger VLD Hunting line as HPBT but they are devastating on game.
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