Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

going to an Auction Sunday , could anyone tell me if the Black diamond come in different grades? They have 2 guns with same features VR, monte carlo stocks, And 1 that has trap stamped on it.Are all black diamonds trap guns?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 02:58 PM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

Only Black Diamond listed in BB is a trap gun
Build in various configurations - has a small ebony diamond inlaid on each side of pistol grip
30 or 32" barrel with solid rib
100% - 3250.00 90% - 2200.00 60% - 1350.00
Add 50% for milled VR

Good luck to you - post some pics if you get it

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 03:01 PM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

The model 12 does list a Trap Gun also
so be sure it's a black diamond before you pay the price
Regular Trap guns for from 675.00 - 2000.00

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 08:04 PM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

Just skimmed thru Dave Riffle's Model 12 book which is the authoritative treatise on this model...Early Trap Grades all contained a black diamond forward of the checkering on each side of the grip just behind the receiver...BDs were made in 12, 16 and 20 gauges....All 12 gauge guns had a Nickel Steel barrel....

I did not read thru the years to see when Winchester discontinued the Black Diamonds on the grip....it would be quite unlikely someone put together a fake Black Diamond....Look for them displayed as stated above....and remember that 12 gauge Traps (the most common) all had Nickel Steel barrels which was so inscribed on the left side of the barrel....
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 10:20 PM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

Please don't ever trust info. in Blue Book, Gun Traders Guide, etc. Alot of the Info. they print is pure bunk, or has a bit of the truth and the rest conjecture. As a certified appraiser since 1993 I have had alot of hard feelings due to their bad information.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 08:14 AM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

You're dead on about the misinformation in those "Guides"....a friend of mine has been valuing the pre '64 Model 70 section of the Blue Book for many years....let's just say his values are written in the buyer's favor....lol...
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

I went to veiw them yesterday all of them had Simmons VR., I dont know if this is factory installed or not, One had an diamond inlaided in stock, the other one had a smaller diamond that looked like black tape didnt appear to be inlaided. I beleive it isnt right, Neithier had Nickle steel barrels.Both made in 1961,Going to save my money for real thing Thanks for info. Excellent sight.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: Question on winchester Mo. 12 Black diamond

Good decision. I am absolutely certain no Black Diamond was made in 1961 nor did any have Simmons ribs....

Those guns are most likely converted field guns....
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