10.7 MM - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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10.7 MM

Have have a drilling that a friend sent back from WWII

It is a double 16 ga over a 10.7 MM. the markings are on the underside of the barrels.

It is a straight rimmed case, an ideas on what this cal. is and would it be a black powder load?

From what I can find it was made, possibly around 1895-1900, any info or ideas where I can find info about this drilling.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 03:31 PM
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Re: 10.7 MM

Any make or manufacturers mark on the gun?

Might be the cartridge designed for this gun:
10.75×58 mmR also known as .42 Berdan

is that 16 gauge 2 1/2 inch (64mm) or 2 3/4 inch (70mm) chambering?

Check out this post:

Someone asking the same kind of question

Evidently there were:

10.7X57R KRAG-PETERSON
10.75X57 MANNLICHER
10.75X58R RUSSIAN BERDAN
10.75X63 MAUSER
10.75X65R COLLATH
10.75X68 MAUSER

And here is another fellow with the same kind of project:

Drilling project

Check the link on his post to his original purchase of the drilling.

Drilling project first thread

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 10.7 MM

I will try and get some good pictures.

There are some markings and several names on various places on the firearm

On the rib is Albert Latz, Euskirchen.

On the tang is sicher which I am told is German for safety.

On the underside of the stock near the butt is a metal cover for a pocket that holds 4 rounds of rifle ammo, it has Gustay Windeck

On the rifle barrel, under the forearm, is 10.7 mm and both shotgun barrels are marker 16/1

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 05:00 PM
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Re: 10.7 MM

I think you might have a really interesting piece! According to google search and translation, Albert Latz, from Euskirchen, Germany, was the inventor of the dog biscuit. He lived 1855 - 1923. In 1971, the Latz company merged with Purina and there is still a Purina factory in Euskirchen today.

I used to work for a European company. Family ties run deep there. I'll be willing to bet you that there might just be a Latz working there today. It would be real cool to contact them to see if you have one of their family heirlooms.

Chances are that is not Gustay, but Gustav. And Windeck is a region in Germany. Chances are it is somehow related to the guns you can find on auction that are labelled GUSTAV GUNTHER METZ. Perhaps those were three men that joined up and perhaps Gustav was from Windeck?


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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-24-2015, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 10.7 MM

Here are a few pics of the drilling, it has a lot of wear on the wood but the metal is in great shape.



Notice the lwft handed cheek piece





If this piece could only talk.

Every piece of metal, including the screws, is engraved.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-29-2015, 01:58 PM
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Re: 10.7 MM

Pics are cool. You have lots of proof marks to help. I would try posting the same question, with pics, to this forum:

Double Guns Forum

on the German & Austrian Sporting Guns sub-forum. They seem to know a bunch of info.

Here are some other postings with similar markings mentioned:

The Firing Line

Calguns

Africa Hunting


Double Guns

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 11:00 AM
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Re: 10.7 MM

Big Redneck, if you find out the info on this piece, please post it for us. Very interesting.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 10.7 MM

I posted this on the other site.

Some things I found reading other posts on that site.

The "W" stamped on the barrels stands for Wurgebohrung which means choke.

The U is for close inspection.

I will any other info that I find on the piece.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2015, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 10.7 MM

From the different marks it looks like this piece was made n the 1911/1912 time frame.

It has a mark DRGM which is a Gebrauchmuster mark, from Wikipeda
In German and Austrian patent laws, the Gebrauchsmuster (GebrM), also known as German utility model or Austrian utility model, is a patent-like, intellectual property right protecting inventions.

The Gebrauchsmuster is slightly different from the patent. It mainly differs from the patent in that processes and methods cannot be protected by a Gebrauchsmuster, only products can. Furthermore, the term of a Gebrauchsmuster, that is its maximal lifetime, is 10 years from the date of registration. In contrast, a patent has usually a term of 20 years from the date of filing of the application.

A reply from the other site on one of the different markings that I found.

The 3,6GPB/StmG notes 3,6 grams of Gewehr Blättchenpulver(military flake powder) over steel metal jacketed bullet and was a stamp used from July 23rd, 1893 till the rules change in 1912 so the construction of the sporting weapon must have commenced say around 1911 & saw completion between 1912 & WWI.


I need to make a chamber casting of the rifle chamber to get an exact measurement.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2015, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 10.7 MM

One of the Gentlemen on the other site researched the DRGM numbers and found it had to be applied for in 1905 as he found confirmed DRGM numbers for firearms built before and after that date.

The other stamps can range from 1893 till 1912 and felt it was more in the 1911 range.

Some other info from the other site

Big Redneck,
The proofmark for a choked rifle barrel was a "S" superimposed over the "W", under a crown. The 10.7 is not the cartridge the drilling is chambered for. Instead, it is the bore diameter(not groove or bullet diameter)of the barrel as measured by the proofhouse with "gauge rods"or pins.It means a 10.7mm rod would enter the barrel,but a 10.8 rod wouldn't.To determine the cartridge,it is intended for, better measurements will be required. The diameter of the head,length of case,at a minimum would be required.This is assuming your statement that it is a straight case is correct(it likely is).Your rough measurement of 2.5", for the length could fit a couple case lengths, depending on where the case stops and the leade starts and ends. It would also be nice to know the rim diameter and thickness(thickness can be indirectly measured by measuring the depth of the rim recess),as well as the groove diameter of the barrel.Since measuring inside diameters with a dial caliper can be from a couple to several thousanths "off", it is better to make a chamber cast and the measurements can be made from the outside.With these measurements, I'm sure we can find or make cases and bullets that will work.It is also likely we can ID the name of the cartridge, but that is not necessary to be able to shoot it. Just my guess is it is likely something on the order of 11x55-65R, but I could be wrong as I often am.BTW,even though you asked about a black powder load the steel jacketed bullet and GBP show it was a smokeless powder cartridge.
Mike

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