Army Looking For More Knockdown Power - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

Looks like the Army is finally going to get away from the 9mm and back to a larger caliber, good move.

But who writes this stuff?
Quote:
“We are not dictating a caliber during the competition,” the spokesperson said. “A vendor may submit multiple calibers of ammunition. However, the ammunition must exceed the performance of the current M882 9mm round.”

Among those likely to be considered in the Modular Handgun System competition are the .40 and .45 caliber rounds.

The argument against the .40 caliber round is that its heavier weight and stronger recoil causes excessive wear on a 9 mm pistol.
Huh?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/...ter-knock-down/

Shoot straight

People are sick of politicians, and me, I hate cats in the house.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 06:43 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

Yeah, I don't know what they are trying to say.

Having had the 9mm Beretta issued to me during my time on active duty (Aviation). I sure was glad to have been issued the M4 during combat operations. The Beretta was great in a pinch (when compared to the M-16 and much better than the .38 pistol that was previously issued). But my intent if downed, was to get as far away from the bad guys as possible and the Beretta was a close quarters firearm only.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 07:17 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

When it comes down to it a hand gun round with FMJ's is a poor choice when it comes to "knockdown" power.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 07:21 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

Given that the FMJ bullets in the various pistol cartridges are notoriously poor stoppers so increasing bore diameter is one way to compensate that because expanding bullets are not allowed when it is important to kill people. Going back to the future to the 110yr old .45ACP makes sense. Usually pistols in combat are used as a last resort until you can get your hands on another rifle.

Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

They need to get away from FMJ,that is the problem.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 01:47 AM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

The US had plenty of experience with the 9mm (Germany used them in WWII) and they knew it was an inadequate round but they went with it anyway, supposedly because of NATO.

From what I've heard there are three cartridges under consideration......357sig, 40S&W and 45ACP.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 02:21 AM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by good ole boy
They need to get away from FMJ,that is the problem.
Geneva convention rules from way back....The aim of war is not to kill the opponent, but to disable him and make him a liability to the enemy by requiring him to take up manpower by being attended to.The main advantage of the 9mm is that it can hold more ammo and it it is a small round of which many more can be carried....45 ACP is limited in this regard.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 11:32 AM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

I like carry and ammo for a 9mm because of weight but I would feel better with a 45 ACP.Soldiers could care less about any convention when life is on the line.I know some that used their knife to cut an X in the metal jacket so they would expand.We also use RPGs,drones,mortors and land mines all designed to kill.So Geneva is a joke or more correctly a feel good about war smoke screen.

Bob Seger,till it shines.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 01:34 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ken
Quote:
Originally Posted by good ole boy
They need to get away from FMJ,that is the problem.
Geneva convention rules from way back....The aim of war is not to kill the opponent, but to disable him and make him a liability to the enemy by requiring him to take up manpower by being attended to.The main advantage of the 9mm is that it can hold more ammo and it it is a small round of which many more can be carried....45 ACP is limited in this regard.
The Geneva convention has nothing to do with the type of ammo used during combat. The treaty covers the treatment of prisoners and humanitarian stuff, in short.

The Hague Convention of 1899 covers the type of ammo that can be used in combat. Also, the USA never signed it.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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Re: Army Looking For More Knockdown Power

We start using hoppow points, they start using exploding bullets and on and on. Better off using FMJ. It takes more people to care for the wounded than to carry off the dead when they get around to it.



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