I am an older person from back when you were taught that when you got something you took care of it and it lasted you?
I belong to 3 different rifle ranges! 2 of them have people who come to them and have to shoot things to pieces !
They have the frames built of 4x4 or 6x6s.
why do people have to take and just keep shooting the uprights till they fall over ? Then you have no where to mount targets to a backing ?
I am not to be pointing a finger at any one but you go there one day and shoot and then go back a couple of days later and the post are shot in pieces and laying on the ground ! On the ground all around are piles of 223 cases?
So whom could be doing this? For what reason?
The clubs are putting in a hidden camera systems to find out who is doing this.
What is bad is it has to be a member to get to use the ranges !
Same thing happens at my range. People with semi autos that just blast away. We have to redo our stands almost every month. Its not much fun when you want to shoot and cant because the backstop is torn up.
Every gun club I have belong to over yeas has this same issue. Not saying it's right or should be overlooked but the number of instances when the culprits were actually caught and brought before the board of directors are few. In every case they lost their memberships. One club actually faced the uprights with angled steel plates and that worked.
I agree, this is a problem at virtually every club and range at one point or another. Sometimes it's the result of 1 or 2 disrespectful individuals and sometimes I think it's just cumulative member use.
Recently at my club I was shooting and a older man, probably in his 70's showed up with two younger boys probably 14-15ish(probably grandchildren). I knew it was going to be bad when one of the kids jumped out of the car with a cigarette in his mouth and shotgun in hand, ran up to the firing line and fired a round from the hip. After a minute or two I stopped firing and asked them if they needed to go down range to hang targets, "no" they said. So over the next 20 mins or so that I was there I watched all 3 of them(the older man included) just shoot/spray randomly at whatever they were aiming at downrange.
That being said I am by no means lumping all shooters of semi-auto rifles or handguns into the same group or bashing them. I myself own an AR-15, a Ruger 10/22, and several semi-auto handguns and I like to think that I shoot them responsibly.
Every range I have ever belonged too has issues with posts getting shot, its far from anything new. One place used 4x8 sheets of plywood hung on the 4x4 posts, and they would paint and mark the area of plywood were targets should NOT be hung. That eliminated the problem of people purposely hanging a target were the bullet would hit a upright or cross member. That did help, but did not eliminate the problem.
willy,
If the range is putting in hidden cameras to try and catch people. It would probably be a good idea not to announce it on the www for everyone to read.
One range I go to has this problem....on the 10, 15, and 25 yard stops. Not on the 50 or 100.
The other I go to has a handgun "pit", then a 25/50 pistol range and rifle sight-in, and a 100/200/300 rifle range.
ZERO issues.
The Call of Duty wanna-be crowd goes to the "pit". This is a big hill scooped out, some hanging bowling pins are there, but you can set up "bouncer targets" or a variety of other stuff, and people actually do tend to keep it from being a complete dump with target bits and such...most (not all) is picked up.
Seems like giving the "I just wanna make it go bang a lot" crowd a place to do that has really protected the rest of the facilities.
You're right, give people a space to do that is helpful. I belong to a club with several "pits" like you mentioned that are smaller, maybe 25-30yards long and you can go in there and shoot a semi rifle, handguns, shotguns, black powder, basically anything within reason. It's funny though because people still complain that there is "never any target stands"....well yeah because you shot them all up! Most people have resorted to bringing their own target stands which ads a whole new level of personal responsibility! hahaha
Interesting, I have been spending a lot more time at the range this summer and thought the same thing. Granted, the guy that takes care of the place is always complaining about replacing the "hanging wood"(plywood). But that's the nature of things. It's the frames that need attention. Not to mention the holes in roof over the benches.
I saw somewhere about a club looking for members. One of the criteria of membership was that you take a range safety course. Once that was completed you got your card and combination to the locks. That sounded like a good idea to me, then you can hammer into these idiots that if they start destroying things they get a swift boot in the rear as they leave.
Call of Duty wanna-be's... I like that one. Tell them to come on over and spend some range time with me. That AR gets to shoot only at the 300yrd backstop, and keep them in the baseball sized orange ring.
I saw somewhere about a club looking for members. One of the criteria of membership was that you take a range safety course. Once that was completed you got your card and combination to the locks. That sounded like a good idea to me, then you can hammer into these idiots that if they start destroying things they get a swift boot in the rear as they leave.
Both the clubs I belong to require a range safety course to join. One of them requires a FOB to enter any of the ranges indoor and out and also has cameras.
There is really no stopping ignorance and willful destruction at any range that I have seen. I belong to two different clubs in two different areas of the state. 1 has a average yearly fee and virtually no restrictions on membership. The 2nd club has a high yearly fee, must have an active member sponsor you to join, must be voted in, range safety and orientation classes, 1yr probation period, etc... and the same exact crap goes on at both ranges. People attend the safety class/orientation and it goes in one ear and out the other, after a year or two no one remembers anything that was taught. People moan and complain about ranges instituting a 3round limit on mags and this is probably the reason why. Even then I dont know if that rule helps because I sometimes go to the local gamelands range and target holders there are often shot up also.
My neighbors and I made a nice range at our own time and expense for pistols, and 4 lanes out to 300 yards range and we allow the other locals to use it.
It appears that some think those big old tube TVs make great targets and we end up cleaning up after slobs 3 or 4 times a year.
Its amazing how little respect people show for other peoples things.
Long before people even got interested in AR's like when Colt held all the patents and no one else made them and to get one you had to sell a kidney, uprights were being shot up. The GC range off 118 put in angle iron to cover the 4x4's in the 80's. About a week later there were 30ish cal holes in the steel and slug chunks out of the exposed wood.
Last Mon and Tues I was shooting with about 1000 people who would gladly take their AR;s to 300. In fact, all of them did and shot without a bench or a bag or a bipod. They they went to 600.
Stupid shooters have been with us for a long time, and they wont go away
The destruction has been going on for years. But I have to admit that it has gotten so much worse I the more recent years. I have witnessed the older croud being as destructive as the younger croud. I think it's more along the lines of there are more firearms now than ever before. The AR rifles aren't the problem at all. I would say it's more of a respect thing.
I was at a range one time years ago and some guy was shooting tannerite targets and he ended up catching the wooden target stand on fire, as well as the grass around it. No running water nearby, luckily someone had a fire extinguisher in their car.
I fail to understand why a person with a financial stake in range maintenance would shoot things up. There is some screw loose that should prevent them from owning a firearm in the first place.
I became so disillusioned with shooters at public ranges, that I avoid them. Holes through the roof over the firing line, shooting down up rights. Or the need to shoot up glass bottles and leave the garbage laying around. To the point that I constructed my own range here on the farm. 20 ft high back stop and out to 125 yds and I only shoot black powder guns. In 14 years no target holders shot up.
I see a common thread here, lack of responsibility.
Maybe it's time to put in requirements with these clubs that every member has to put in X amount of time with work parties. Make that a stipulation of their membership. If you don't help clean/fix up you get the boot. Right now people pay their $$$ and think it's a free for all. With the mentality of "hey, I paid my dues". Get out and pick up the garbage and fix the backstops and they might get a better appreciation for the damage they do.
Wait, what am I saying. They'll still do it because they are a special kind of slob.
Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, the range I mentioned that I visit with a "pit" also has a key-coded gated entry.
Folks I've met there will NOT open the gate for someone who "forgot" unless the person who forgot shows a membership card and ID proving their the person who's name is on the membership card. Now they print the gate key code on the membership cards, that have to be renewed annually.
Of course, everyone I've met takes some personal "ownership" of the club and its condition. Another range I visit has no capability to restrict entry and is on a well-traveled road. I'm certain a lot of destruction there is from people who just stop and shoot with no membership and no concern over what they do to the facilities.
I think every club has people that help and respect the property and those that don't help or respect the property.Usually the helper list is short.So I suspect the respect list is not much longer.The same group of people go to meetings while others don't.We have a range sign in sheet,do not duplicate gate keys,semi auto target backstop and still the posts get shot up,tannerite is used,shotguns and the metal range signs get shot.I'm a trustee and this is brought up at every meeting and still goes on.If anyone has a sound answer to stopping this I'm all ears.This is personal for me as I stand to lose a 200 yard range down to 100.Doesn't make sense because it will still happen.I wanted to go to 300 yards.
About the only time I ever see much destruction at our club it's from birdshot to the target backers. I forget when it was but someone taught a LEO class and they were using shotguns and punched out a series of garbage can lid sized holes in the middle of 4 or 5 of our backers, ditto when someone brings out their turkey gun to pattern it. Other than that, I guess the relatively high (but WAY worth it as you get what you pay for) dues and buy-in keep the non-serious lowlifes out. Not to be too hoity toity about things, but yeah it's generally a fact that ignorant morons generally don't have nice or sophisticated guns-- I'll trust someone who has a LaRue, Noveske, KAC, or LWRC over one with something cheap or antiquated that tells me they're just there to make noise and/or do the twice a year thing.
As for piles of brass left laying on the ground, I'll gladly take advantage of that. I probably get my club fees back every year in the value of the brass I pick up. .223 is VERY nice, except for whatever that IX headstamp stuff is with the pink sealant around the primer.
Its not always the Rambo wanna be's tearing up the range with semi-autos. I was at our club a few times just prior to deer season, and saw guys hang targets right on the 8x8 uprights, instead of the backer boards. The boards had been shot up pretty bad during regular usage and these guys wanted a solid spot to hang their target I guess. Well with enough hits from a .30/06 or other such high powdered rifle, even an 8X8 isn't going to hold up long. Our club has since put up cameras and most of this nonsense has ceased.
At the club I belong to it appears that most of the backer damage is caused during the rifle competitions. Many of the targets they shoot at are set up in front of the backers so every time they have a shoot at least a couple of the backers get hit unintentionally.
However they check them at the work party each month and replace as needed so it hasn't been to much of an issue.
Every club I belonged to over the years around the country as well as state ranges I have used, the 25 yd ranges normally get destroyed. More cases than not, piles of 223 and 7.62x39 casings. But also seen it done by 22 RF and pistol shooters. Common thing noticed is that these people don't bring what they need to actually hang targets on backers so stick them on posts and cross members. Also seen cans and plastic bottles the were obviously set on posts/cross members. The vast majority of those seem to be guys that just want to blast (hey! Watch this!). One state range I was a regular at in MO tried all kinds of things to get longer life out of post/backers. They tried using steel for posts and hung chicken wire for backer materiel. Then the yahoos decided they wanted to see if the penetrators in 7.62x39 rounds actually "penetrated". So, they shot the crap out of the steel posts. The club I belong to now decided to build a separate pistol range to move the pistol shooters off the 25 yd rifle range. That helped and us pistol shooters like it. The 25 yd rifle range lasts a bit longer (easier for novices to shoot and hit target at 12-15 yds than 25 yds) but it still gets hammered from the blasters and needs constant reapairs
Like I said, common problem on 25 yd ranges all over the country. Don't see it as much on 50 yd and hardly at all at 100+ yds. More serious accuracy shooters normally use those
I see similar trends. That's part of why the one range I use has less of a problem. The pistol "pit" allows the proper space for the kind of shooting the "hey, watch this" shooters do without shooting up the more structured ranges. Another club I belong to is constructing a pistol-only range like that, and I'm anxious to see if, when it opens, it has similar benefits to the club's facilities receiving less abuse.
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