Anyone using a smokeless muzzleloader? - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
Frequent Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Shippensburg, Michaux and 4B
Posts: 954
Back To Top
Anyone using a smokeless muzzleloader?

I'm thinking of getting a smokeless muzzleloader. I was thinking of building one off of a savage 10 action with a prefit Brux barrel but with the type of hunting that I do, a 12 lb rifle is alot considering last time I walked about 7 miles. Thinking of going more the route now of a CVA hunter or a Scout v2 with a hankins DIS ignition.

I was just curious if anyone here had any experience with any of all this. The smokeless MZ builders seem to have some pretty well built up divisions and cult followings. Its almost as bad as left vs right. I just want to spend my money in the best way possible. Thanks.

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.
burninghxcsoul is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 06:50 PM
Sage
 
Loggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York Co.(Hunt Sullivan Co)
Posts: 21,443
Back To Top
Had 2 smokeless Savage 10ML's and experienced problems with premature breech plug ventliner erosion. One was a factory & the other a custom built Henry Ball. Also, with some of the hotter smokeless loads found sabots blowing(letting go). Both of these problems seriously impaired accuracy. For an inline I'm now happy with everything that BH209 does. It was fun dabbling with smokeless but concluded a lil swabbing ain't all that bad!!
flintlock hunter likes this.

NRA Life Member
PFSC Life Member
CBF Member
Loggy is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 06:58 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
blackpowder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: blooming valley pa. in nw pa 1B
Posts: 2,907
Back To Top
I may be wrong here, so help me out guys; can't you shoot smokeless if you down load to the safe pressure of that particular gun? no different than original black powder cartridge guns, that is what most people shoot in them because they don't want to deal with the "problems" of black powder? or is the goal to get a more fps m/l?
blackpowder is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:19 PM
Sage
 
Loggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York Co.(Hunt Sullivan Co)
Posts: 21,443
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
I may be wrong here, so help me out guys; can't you shoot smokeless if you down load to the safe pressure of that particular gun? no different than original black powder cartridge guns, that is what most people shoot in them because they don't want to deal with the "problems" of black powder? or is the goal to get a more fps m/l?
Yep...goal was to achieve high centerfire comparable velocity plus no swabbing as you were shooting smokeless powder. Never ever, ever shoot smokeless powder in a gun designed for black powder as pressures could cause firearm to let go and cause injury or death.. Most guns safety manuals contain this warning.

The Savage 10 ML smokeless muzzleloaders were specifically overbuilt to handle the higher pressures that smokeless powder generates. The weak points as I posted were in the ventliner which was a little tube(in breech plug) for the 209 charge to channel the fire to the powder. Sorta like the flash hole in a flinter but was it was a liner so it could be replaced. Only problem was some powders caused premature erosion & you never knew how many shots till it needed replaced. I experienced an early erosion with some of my pet loads so it became a hassle I didn't want to deal with...plus replacement liners were expensive. In addition, there was also issues of sabots letting go which also harmed accuracy.
flintlock hunter likes this.

NRA Life Member
PFSC Life Member
CBF Member

Last edited by Loggy; 01-31-2019 at 07:31 PM.
Loggy is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:28 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
blackpowder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: blooming valley pa. in nw pa 1B
Posts: 2,907
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggy View Post
Yep...goal was to achieve high centerfire comparable velocity plus no swabbing as you were shooting smokeless powder. Never ever, ever shoot smokeless powder in a gun designed for black powder as pressures could cause firearm to let go and cause injury or death.. Most guns safety manuals contain this warning.

The Savage 10 ML smokeless muzzleloaders were specifically overbuilt to handle the higher pressures that smokeless powder generates. The weak points as I posted were in the ventliner which was a little tube(in breech plug) for the 209 charge to channer to the fire to the powder. Sorta like the flash hole in a flinter but was it was a liner so it could be replaced. Only problem was some powders caused premature erosion & you never knew how many shots till it needed replaced. I experienced an early erosion with some of my pet loads so it became a hassle I didn't want to deal with...plus replacement liners were expensive. In addition, there was also issues of sabots letting go which also harmed accuracy.

I understand the smokeless/black powder safety issues now I understand the goal of the smokeless specific m/l better. what cal./bullet size and velocities are they capable of?
blackpowder is online now  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:41 PM
New Arrival
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
Back To Top
Yes, I have 2 smokeless guns. One is a 700 Remington action with pacnor barrel and the other is a CVA scout 45/70 converted. The 700 is not a carry gun and that's why I did the scout. I size my bullets through a sizing die and with a 250 grain bullet 2700 fps is easy to achieve. I killed a beautiful buck this year at 297 yards. Soon as I can figure how to post pics I will post some of my smokeless guns. The good thing is you can shoot blackhorn powder if you want.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (1.27 MB, 9 views)
Loggy and flintlock hunter like this.

Last edited by mike3888; 01-31-2019 at 07:49 PM.
mike3888 is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:41 PM
Sage
 
Loggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York Co.(Hunt Sullivan Co)
Posts: 21,443
Back To Top
I shot the 250 grain .452 Hornady XTP's with MMP High Pressure(HP) sabots loading IMR SR4759 and pushed 2,500 fps. AA5744 was also a good powder that provided comparable results.

NRA Life Member
PFSC Life Member
CBF Member
Loggy is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:51 PM
Diehard Outdoorsman
 
blackpowder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: blooming valley pa. in nw pa 1B
Posts: 2,907
Back To Top
interesting info, how are they grouping compared to a cf?
blackpowder is online now  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 07:57 PM
Sage
 
Loggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York Co.(Hunt Sullivan Co)
Posts: 21,443
Back To Top
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
interesting info, how are they grouping compared to a cf?
No experience with any cf's with that heavier bullet weight. I know my 6.5 Swede would shooter better groups with a 140 grain bullet. The 250 XTP's would group very well though...exceeding what you would desire for good hunting accuracy.

NRA Life Member
PFSC Life Member
CBF Member
Loggy is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 08:01 PM
New Arrival
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
Back To Top
They shoot some pretty amazing groups. My brother actually went this route. His was done with a aftermarket encore barrel in 45/70. I don't think we will be going back anytime soon. I'm actually getting ready to do a .40 caliber build. Here is my CVA. I killed this deer on 6th shot out of gun first 5 were to sight in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (1.98 MB, 12 views)
mike3888 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome