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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Help me out here.

I read an article in a recent PON issue. It seems the Roughed Grouse Society wnats the PGC to give better estimates regarding the Grouse population. Pretty sure it said flushing rates are not a very viable method, and they seem to question the estimates as being inflated.

So I ask. Other than flushing rates, what other methods could possibly be better ? Keep in mind, I'm not a huge Grouse Hunter, so I may not know the obvious.

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 12:12 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

Post the article.

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me out here.

That would require my having wayyyyyy more technology than I have. I'm sure somebody can do it. I believe it's from the past issue or two. Not sure if their website lists previous articles or not.

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 12:49 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

Just who is doing the talking? It wouldn't be a certain self emloyed biologist would it?




When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 01:54 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

Excuse me for being a dullard, but what is PON

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 02:08 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

I believe it is PA Outdoor News, we live in a world of acronyms, unfortunately.




When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 03:11 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo
So I ask. Other than flushing rates, what other methods could possibly be better ? Keep in mind, I'm not a huge Grouse Hunter, so I may not know the obvious.
Drumming counts.

Maybe FLIR! LOL!

The deer didn't disappear.... the 250,000 guys who used to walk around and make the deer move did.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me out here.

FLIR was the first thing that crossed my mind.

Yes PA Outdoor News.

I will grab the article tonight and let you know more about it, but thinking it was just in general the RGS is the one questioning the estimates. I'm just not sure how the heck you can get the +- variance any closer than flush count with Grouse. Drumming would have even more variance, no ?

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 07:33 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

I would think a combination of Cooperator info, flush surveys, and drumming counts would give you a pretty good base.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 10:46 PM
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Re: Help me out here.

The reason the flush rates derived from the Ruffed Grouse Cooperator's survey are viewed as inaccurate is because most cooperators are dedicated grouse hunters who will find and hunt the best grouse habitat available. The numbers they report don't accurately reflect the overall grouse population in Pennsylvania. In fact if you compare survey results over the past 45 years, the numbers have bounced up and down in different years (possibly based on the success of that year's hatch), but the results from the last few years match the long term average. If you use only the numbers from this survey, it would lead you to believe the overall grouse population of the last 40 years is basically unchanged.

Another method used for showing population trends is the PA breeding bird atlas. The atlas divides the state into about 4900 blocks of about 9 square miles, then counts the number of blocks with at least one bird found during the breeding season for that species. In the first survey ('83-'89) grouse were recorded in 2782 blocks while the second survey ('04-'08') they were found in only 1869 blocks. While not a total population count, the places grouse were found is down about 30% over the past 30 years.

And yet another poputation index is the Christmas Bird Count Survey. It counts all birds found within a 15 mile circle, and is adjusted by how many hours were spent by volunteers in each circle. The results of that survey show grouse numbers are down about 50% in the last 30 years.

My personal observations match what the survey's above are showing. I no longer find grouse on the edges of the local farms or in the neighborhood woodlots. I'll drive a lot of miles and spend a whole lot of time trying to find the best place to hunt them. The good news is that I believe I will see as many or more grouse this year (my 40th hunting them) as we did when my Dad first started me out on this life long obsession.
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