What makes the CS WPRA successful? - Page 6 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #51 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 09:12 PM
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Sorry to break it to you, but I AM one of those older, experienced hunters, I know there were areas of the state that had wild pheasants, but mine wasn't one of them. And, I know there were areas, (although very few), that had wild quail, again, mine did not. You seem to ignore the fact that MOST of our avian predators eat quite a few mice, rats, voles, etc. I believe these small animals make up a large percentage of their diet. in my own experience, I've never seen a hawk or owl eating on a roadkill or animal dead from other causes.


I was driving home from flintlock hunting the other day, and this discussion came to mind. As I drove I passed several areas where I used to kill rabbits and stocked pheasants. All four areas used to produce game on occasion. Three of them now supported a thriving population of town houses or mobile homes, and the fourth was a barren field that grew corn last summer. I also didn't see a single pheasant. I'd bet though, that the local birds of prey had a literal buffet of birdfeeders to choose from.
Depends on which raptor you are talking about, some are more likely to eat birds or rabbits. As for where you drive, on your way home from hunting, go a different way home and look at areas that have good habitat, and little to no small game, then think of a good reason for the lack of game. As for your bird feeders being a buffet, its probably only a buffet to the coopers and sharpshinned, maybe an occasional goshawk, but your redtails and other large hawks are not good at catching small fast birds. And your great horned owls are not good birdfeeder raiders. They do well at killing rabbits, muskrats, skunks, and roosting birds, like pheasant turkey and grouse. When raptors are not eating these they have a good time with road kill and domestic poultry.
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post #52 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 09:27 PM
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I've noticed over the years while crow hunting and when predator hunting during daylight hours we get a lot of hawks and even had eagles respond to the call and land in a tree nearby to steal a quick meal. I honestly can't remember that happening years ago but now it's a common occurance. We didn't even have bald eagles around when I was a kid and now I see them almost daily.

I also have tons of trail cam pics of hawks and even a few eagles eating off of carcasses I put trail clams on.
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post #53 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 09:52 PM
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I have called in a few owls at night when fox hunting, most times I believe that most owls are silent and we do not even know they are there. It is hawks and owls that kill cause the most predation on the pheasants in the restoration areas, according to the biloigists. Most complaints I get of people having their domestic poultry eaten , involve raptors, next inline are fox and some coon. Everything has to eat.

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post #54 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 07:49 AM
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Raptors are basically the only protected animal in PA. In their effort to protect Bald Eagles they have allowed hawks to become incredibly numerous. Why do we have seasons to control even Bobcats, Fishers and Otters but not hawks.

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post #55 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 08:51 AM
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I also have tons of trail cam pics of hawks and even a few eagles eating off of carcasses I put trail clams on.
Around here, a road-killed deer that makes it 50 yards off the road before expiring is a magnet for the bald eagles. If hawks and owls did not eat stuff they did not kill, you probably would not need to have trapping lures not visible from the air.



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Originally Posted by harleynit View Post
Raptors are basically the only protected animal in PA. In their effort to protect Bald Eagles they have allowed hawks to become incredibly numerous. Why do we have seasons to control even Bobcats, Fishers and Otters but not hawks.
This is the $64,000 question. The problem is that the answer involves politicians, not biologists - similar to the (larger) wolf introduction out west. I know some PA raptors get taken out via the SSS method when they become an issue for domestic animals.
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post #56 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by quackmaster4 View Post
Sorry to break it to you, but I AM one of those older, experienced hunters, I know there were areas of the state that had wild pheasants, but mine wasn't one of them. And, I know there were areas, (although very few), that had wild quail, again, mine did not. You seem to ignore the fact that MOST of our avian predators eat quite a few mice, rats, voles, etc. I believe these small animals make up a large percentage of their diet. in my own experience, I've never seen a hawk or owl eating on a roadkill or animal dead from other causes.


I was driving home from flintlock hunting the other day, and this discussion came to mind. As I drove I passed several areas where I used to kill rabbits and stocked pheasants. All four areas used to produce game on occasion. Three of them now supported a thriving population of town houses or mobile homes, and the fourth was a barren field that grew corn last summer. I also didn't see a single pheasant. I'd bet though, that the local birds of prey had a literal buffet of birdfeeders to choose from.
Many people who hunt or even get out in the country, see raptors eating things they did not kill themselves. I have seen them eating road kill, things that have been shot, and saw a redtail steal from a coopers. Both redtails and coopers are hard on pheasants, however when they killed off the wild pheasants in the past they still had no problem finding food.
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post #57 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 10:07 AM
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Around here, a road-killed deer that makes it 50 yards off the road before expiring is a magnet for the bald eagles. If hawks and owls did not eat stuff they did not kill, you probably would not need to have trapping lures not visible from the air.





This is the $64,000 question. The problem is that the answer involves politicians, not biologists - similar to the (larger) wolf introduction out west. I know some PA raptors get taken out via the SSS method when they become an issue for domestic animals.
I believe this is an effort of the anti hunters, to reduce game numbers low enough, to the point that hunting seasons get closed, or game numbers get so low human hunters do not even hunt. Here in PA that is what happened to the wild pheasants, no one hunts them anymore because they are gone, we need to rely on the pheasant truck, as the restoration efforts have not worked well.
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post #58 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 04:14 PM
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My son told me there was a bald eagle killed in northern Butler County that was feeding on roadkill. A vehicle came down the road, spooked it, and it was hit as it tried to take off across the highway.

I almost hit one on Rt 53, Cooper Mt., Clearfield County last winter. It was feeding on a dead coon.
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post #59 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 04:46 PM
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Around here, a road-killed deer that makes it 50 yards off the road before expiring is a magnet for the bald eagles. If hawks and owls did not eat stuff they did not kill, you probably would not need to have trapping lures not visible from the air.
A couple years ago while grouse hunting in northern Maine I happened upon a road kill dump for want of a better term. Carcasses of deer and moose that had been killed on the roadway. When the dog and I came within 50-75 yards of it about 10-12 eagles and a couple dozen ravens that had been scavenging the pile flushed up.
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post #60 of 98 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 05:19 PM
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Why do we have seasons to control even Bobcats, Fishers and Otters but not hawks.
Well I certainly live in country that had an abundance of pheasant, rabbit and even a good population of quail back in the day. Iíve lived all my life in southern Dauphin County, and hunted in Dauphin, Lancaster, York and Lebanon counties since 1964.

We most certainly donít have the habitat we had then, due to farming practices and fragmentation of habitat. The differences in farming practices are well documented in this and other threads. As to fragmentation of habitat, I can speak to that from experience:

In the mid 60ís, the counties listed above were virtually one contiguous farm, with small areas of cities, towns and rudimentary suburbs dotting the landscape. Now, these same counties are contiguous cities, towns and most of all suburbs, with relatively small areas of farm land dotting the landscape. Even in Lancaster, Lebanon and York counties where there is still a good bit of farmland remaining, itís now small farms completely surrounded and broken up by suburban development.

Iíll not argue that fragmentation of habitat is the biggest factor and will forever more prevent recovery of our small game species, because you that continually rant about birds of prey being the primary issue will never accept it.

BUT, I have one question for you:

Just what do you propose to alleviate the ďproblemĒ? You do know that the PGC has no authority to regulate avian predators, right? You do know that raptors are protected due to international treaty, right? So what exactly is the point of this constant complaining about avian predators, just what do you think it will accomplish?
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