Late Season Grouse - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-27-2018, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Late Season Grouse

This is an interesting read about Maine's grouse harvest rates through out the season, especially given the recent changes in PA to eliminate the late grouse season.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ban...w-study-finds/
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post #2 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-27-2018, 08:15 PM
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I'm just here for the comments....
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post #3 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-27-2018, 08:19 PM
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I do find this study interesting. I think that people will argue that even though the amount of birds killed in the late season is much smaller than early season...they'll say that those birds killed in the late season are more likely to be the older, more successful breeding class of birds.

The reason that so many are killed early is because they're presumed to mostly be young and dumb.
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post #4 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-27-2018, 08:21 PM
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Not sure how well this translates into what is currently happening in PA. I don't think Maine has West Nile Virus. Also Maine's winters are alot more harsh than PA, so I would guess those big deep snows probably keep hunters from hunting sometimes? Just a couple of thoughts. Thanks for posting though as it was an interesting read.

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post #5 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-27-2018, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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I agree this does not necessarily mean what is happening in Maine relates to grouse harvests in PA. Also, I know the main reason the PGC has cited for stopping the late season is that a higher percentage of mature birds are harvested then not necessarily higher numbers. I did find it interesting that they found higher harvest rates in October compared to November and December. My own experiences in the fall grouse woods would have led me to believe the opposite. Hunting grouse with the increased foliage present in October makes this challenging pursuit all the more difficult.
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post #6 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 10:00 AM
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Most grouse are killed by avian predators, so the solution to improve grouse numbers, is to remove the late season. Does not really make sense. Maybe reducing the avian predators that have the greatest impact would help. What we have seen is when we have given total protection to these predators, our game bird numbers have dropped. I believe the wrong predator (man) is being controlled in the number of grouse he can hunt, when the main predator of grouse (raptors) are being allowed to decimate prey numbers. Great habitat helps, but it still allows for over predation, this needs controlled by less predator numbers, over a large area. When the raptor migration occurs an area of good habitat it can be hunted hard by hundreds or thousands of raptors over a few month period. The grouse can not hide 24 hours a day and have to look for food sometime. The more mouths you feed the more they eat. Good habitat along with predator control, of the most influential predators makes the most sense.
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post #7 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 11:51 AM
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I disagree, most grouse are killed by hunters. Great habitat does limit predation. As for avian predators please call your Congressman & Pa. Senators & let them know that the migratory Bird treaty with Canada & Mexico needs to be changed. Constantly complaining about avian predators here on HPA will get you no where.
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post #8 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M. View Post
I disagree, most grouse are killed by hunters. Great habitat does limit predation. As for avian predators please call your Congressman & Pa. Senators & let them know that the migratory Bird treaty with Canada & Mexico needs to be changed. Constantly complaining about avian predators here on HPA will get you no where.
To which "hunters" are you referring? Avian, furry four-legged or man? If man, please post the data that supports that conclusion.
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post #9 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M. View Post
I disagree, most grouse are killed by hunters. Great habitat does limit predation. As for avian predators please call your Congressman & Pa. Senators & let them know that the migratory Bird treaty with Canada & Mexico needs to be changed. Constantly complaining about avian predators here on HPA will get you no where.
I read a study that said avian predators killed the most. As for complaining, I just tell the facts. If these facts bother people they can try to get some avian protections removed. Now, are you saying human hunters kill the most grouse? You should worry more about the accuracy of the my post about the predation, than to complain about what I post. We should try to only post the facts. Now with that, look up some of the studies done with Maine grouse and see what the main predators are, raptors, not just hawks but great horned owls. With this in mind I would think its safe to say, a PA raptor will also eat grouse. If you really believe human hunters are what kills most grouse then maybe you can call your PA Congressman and Senators and maybe they can help with this. I am sure many anti hunters, agree with you that hunters, kill the most grouse.
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post #10 of 103 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 06:28 PM
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The facts do not bother me, nor am I ignorant of the fact that hawks & owls kill grouse. The truth is though that habitat is the key. If Avian predators are killing all grouse now, why did they not wipe them out on this continent before the Europeans came. there definitely was no large killings of hawks & owls at that time. The facts you are stating is that avian predators kill the most grouse among predators. That being birds of prey & land predators like foxes, coyotes, bobcats etc. from the studies that I have read that nest raiders such as opossums, skunks , raccoons, snakes are way more devastating to grouse populations then avian predators. Yes I do believe that hunters kill more grouse in Pa. then avian predators. There is no need to call my congressman or senators about hunters killing a majority, of the grouse, since that is not a federal issue, The Pa. Game Commission does a well enough job with that. You though my fried are always saying that we need to shoot avian predators, that is a federal issue, being that is part of the migratory bird treaty with Canada & Mexico, so you do need to call your congressman & Pa. senators have to have the treaty changed so we can kill avian predators. The PGC can do nothing to change that law, now when the federal law is changed they PGC can ask the state legislature to change our state laws concerning the killing of hawks & owls.
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