I'm coming to hate the process - Page 11 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #101 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Curly Maple View Post
If PA had NY's instant method, with the ability to walk up to a terminal whenever time allows a person.\ (within the dates of a draw period), combined with Pa's fewer WMU and high tag allotments, how many would be walking away from the terminal without a tag? That alone fixes much of what NY hunters are complaining about. Sure some Pa units may run nip and tuck as far as allotment numbers and applicants, even then, the odds are high of drawing. If a person should be unlucky in those cases, then the next round choice they would get a priority. I can't envision Pa ever going to low allotments....but if they did, the treasurers system they have now will really suck. The only thing covering up most of the problems of the way it is done now ....is the high tag allotments.
The problem with that was covered earlier. People would be waiting in line when the license first go on sale. And its questionable if the system could handle the amount of applications without crashing. This would amount to people complaining that they had to wait in line to long, the system crashed and they did not get their tag, and complaints that their schedules dont give them a fair chance to get a tag for WMU's that sell out fast.

Again; its just a different process, but its a process that people would still complain about.

Good luck, Tony
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post #102 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony300wby View Post
The problem with that was covered earlier. People would be waiting in line when the license first go on sale. And its questionable if the system could handle the amount of applications without crashing. This would amount to people complaining that they had to wait in line to long, the system crashed and they did not get their tag, and complaints that their schedules dont give them a fair chance to get a tag for WMU's that sell out fast.

Again; its just a different process, but its a process that people would still complain about.

Good luck, Tony

There would be no need to get in-line the very first morning because it wouldn't matter. It's not first come first served to get the tag...it's draw/lottery based on allotment number and expected applicants. DMAP tags would work the same.
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post #103 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony300wby View Post
Maybe you can explain its advantages better then 1stlight? Because he hasnt been able to.

Good luck, Tony

It is fair to everyone for units that sell out of permits. To start with it eliminates putting everyone at the mercy of a county treasurer. Also, you have a larger window of time to apply for an antlerless tag and have the same chance of being awarded a tag. Those who are rejected get a preference point for the following year. The next year you then have preference over those who were awarded a tag the previous year.


It is easier to read the method used on the NYS web page here...


https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/6403.html


You will NEVER make everyone happy, but you can make the system fair for everyone.
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post #104 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:04 PM
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Unable to comprehend

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Originally Posted by Curly Maple View Post
There would be no need to get in-line the very first morning because it wouldn't matter. It's not first come first served to get the tag...it's draw/lottery based on allotment number and expected applicants. DMAP tags would work the same.

Curly, he's unable to comprehend, you all might as well talk to a stone.
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Last edited by 1stlight; 07-02-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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post #105 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stlight View Post
Tony, nobody can show you the advantages because you are unable to grasp anything....you're stuck in the past.
LOL

Thats funny, especially since I have repeatedly said I am fine with change. But only if that change has advantages. You clearly have not been able to show any advantages, just different ways of doing things.

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Originally Posted by 1stlight View Post
You claim that NYS/DEC is unfair because they issue preference points. Everyone has the same chance and you claim that is bad!
Actually it is some of the NY hunters who are claiming that the PP system is unfair. I just pointed out that the system NY uses isnt the make everyone happy process that you tried to sell it as, and proved that fact with the post's from unhappy NY hunters. You claim that everyone in NY has the same chance of getting a tag in the WMU that they choose, but then the same can be said about WMU's in Pa. So again, what advantage is one process over the other? None.

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Originally Posted by 1stlight View Post
I done with you Tony, but I do hope someone else can enlighten you but I don't think that's possible. A closed mind is a closed mind.
Maybe next time you are going to make claims of one process being better than another you should do some research first. Honestly I would be fine changing how I apply for my antlerless tags if there was/is a more efficient/accurate way to do it. Until the PGC changes the process I will have no problem with the simple, accurate, efficient, and fair system that is in place currently.

Good luck, Tony
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post #106 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeG52 View Post
You will NEVER make everyone happy,
Exactly!

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Originally Posted by JoeG52 View Post
but you can make the system fair for everyone.
You have the same opportunity to receive a tag in any WMU of Pa as me or any other applicant of Pa. How is that not fair?

Good luck, Tony
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post #107 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Curly Maple View Post
There would be no need to get in-line the very first morning because it wouldn't matter. It's not first come first served to get the tag...it's draw/lottery based on allotment number and expected applicants. DMAP tags would work the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Maple View Post
how many would be walking away from the terminal without a tag? That alone fixes much of what NY hunters are complaining about.
In one post you claim that people would be walking away with a tag?

In another post you claim its a draw/lottery system?

If its not a tag that is issued immediately, then everyone is right back to the system that the NY hunters are complaining about with people not getting tags and needing PP. If it is a tag that is issued immediately, then there are the issues with long lines and system capabilities.

Since some PA WMU's sell out in the first round, how is a draw/lottery process or immediate issue of a tag any better and/or more fair that the current Pa process?

Good luck, Tony
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post #108 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 06:09 PM
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Curly, he's unable to comprehend, you all might as well talk to a stone.
My comprehension is just fine. That's why its so clear to me that NY's antlerless license application process is no better or no worse that Pa's antlerless license application process, just different.

Good luck, Tony
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post #109 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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I think you will fine complainers no matter what the system is. The PGC could guarantee every hunter who wants one, a first round tag in the area of their choice, and someone would be crying about it. But the description of how New York does it shows any unbiased person how an efficient system works. I read a lot of "what ifs" about the point of sale method of doing it, but they were all both farfetched (20% of the internet access in the state going down? Really?) and easy to work around. It's not due to the difficulty of the current system that there should be change. It is because the current way is antiquated, wasteful, and much more prone to error and fraud than a point of sale system would be.

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post #110 of 581 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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My comprehension is just fine. That's why its so clear to me that NY's antlerless license application process is no better or no worse that Pa's antlerless license application process, just different.

Good luck, Tony
Tell you a story....Last year, I filled out the application properly, remitted a check for the correct amount, and put it in my mailbox friday night before the Monday deadline, and put up the flag. On Saturday morning, long before the mailman arrived, my wife discovered the pink envelope was gone. Called the PGC and my bank, only to discover that someone had stolen it out of my mailbox (to anyone who says that is a federal offense...that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. NOBODY cares at the federal level about this type of crime). My six dollar and whatever cent check had been "washed" and changed to 316 dollars for "auto work". I filed charges and the dope was eventually arrested and is now serving time, but it was a HUGE hassle to go to various trials, make multiple calls to two different branches of my bank, along with various attorneys, police and other officials and it took MONTHS to get my money back. The only reason I got my tag at all was I picked a WMU where supply is greater than demand until the very end of the bonus rounds.

This was not the fault of how I filled out the application and the check. This was not the fault of the PGC or it's tag allocations or filing deadlines. It wasn't even the fault of the county treasurer. It was just bad luck. Bad luck that I cannot help thinking would NEVER have happened if this state handled the process better. And New Yorks way is clearly better. Yes, it's different. It's different because it is better than our system. It is both different and better.

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