Changes and my line in the sand - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-28-2020, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Changes and my line in the sand

I have hunted in Pa for 25 years and in that time many changes have happened and many more have been discussed. Some I like, mentored youth programs, new bear seasons, antlerless longer than 3 days with generous tag allocations, elk seasons, and others I'm sure i forgot. There are also those i don't care for. I don't like the Saturday opener. even more than the day i don't like the way it was done, but i seems it is here to stay. I'm against the use of semi automatic rifles for big game, but that is a useless fight as there is only possible outcome. The legislature got tired of the complaining and passed the buck to the PGC, now the commission has no one to pass it off on and will eventually allow them. Going way back i didn't like antler point restrictions, and i still don't. Don't get me wrong i support the goals of AR, i just don't agree with the method. Sunday hunting i actually don't really care either way about. It might be nice and i certainly would take advantage of some of the days but if it never gets any further expansion i don't mind. i do however the 3 day thing is dumb.

well i'll stop my rant now and get to my point. All these changes, even the ones i don't like, can be rationalized as "progress" or "advancement". There is one part of pa hunting that IMO should be mostly left alone and that is where i decided i'm make my "line in the sand". The late flintlock season. notice it is flintlock season not muzzleloader season, that falls in october. The october season is where inline rifles belong. The flintlock season was designed to give up progress and advancement and go back to a basic arm. Granted certain liberties have been granted like sabots and modern bullets along with fiber optic sights but the base arm is still historically significant to Pa. the season is special and should remain that way. correct me if i'm wrong but i believe that Pa is the only state with a flintlock only season, lets not ruin that.

OK I'm done...thanks for reading
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post #2 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-28-2020, 11:50 PM
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I'd like to see the Flintlock season be left alone too, however, I think the writing is on the wall...
It overlaps with "Extended Firearms" season in the SRAs, in which shotguns and inlines are allowed currently.
The flintlock season has historically been viewed as a bit of a "non-factor" in terms of harvest/management goal impact... meaning it was never viewed as a "necessity" to reach harvest targets, or much of an issue cutting into allocations or lengths of Archery or Rifle seasons... It was and is a "boon" to the traditionalist or "primitive" hunter.
If hunter numbers were to dip low enough, at some future point, and some projections indicate they very well could, it might become necessary to increase harvests in the "late" seasons after Christmas, and one way to do that is to open up the list of lawful arms, hoping to encourage wider participation.
But before that happens, I believe we'll see a lengthened Rifle season with higher allocations, and probably an increase beyond the current 3 antlerless tags/hunter limit (non-SRA)...
But I can't discount the possibility of it coming to pass that other firearms beyond flintlocks get authorized outside the SRAs, for some or all of the season.

I don't view this as a "line in the sand" personally, I'll still walk the flintlock in January if I have a tag or two left by then. And, frankly, there's not many guys in the woods then anyway, even in the SRA area I hunt from time to time.
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post #3 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-28-2020, 11:54 PM
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Welcome to HPA win 101...with the exception of your AR comments, I could have wrote that post. Maybe not as well, but the same sentiments would be there. You'll find some here that agree with you , and some that don't. But the debates are generally what could be considered civil.....well usually, anyhow!
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post #4 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingatchtochwilsit View Post
I'd like to see the Flintlock season be left alone too, however, I think the writing is on the wall...
It overlaps with "Extended Firearms" season in the SRAs, in which shotguns and inlines are allowed currently.
The flintlock season has historically been viewed as a bit of a "non-factor" in terms of harvest/management goal impact... meaning it was never viewed as a "necessity" to reach harvest targets, or much of an issue cutting into allocations or lengths of Archery or Rifle seasons... It was and is a "boon" to the traditionalist or "primitive" hunter.
If hunter numbers were to dip low enough, at some future point, and some projections indicate they very well could, it might become necessary to increase harvests in the "late" seasons after Christmas, and one way to do that is to open up the list of lawful arms, hoping to encourage wider participation.
But before that happens, I believe we'll see a lengthened Rifle season with higher allocations, and probably an increase beyond the current 3 antlerless tags/hunter limit (non-SRA)...
But I can't discount the possibility of it coming to pass that other firearms beyond flintlocks get authorized outside the SRAs, for some or all of the season.

I don't view this as a "line in the sand" personally, I'll still walk the flintlock in January if I have a tag or two left by then. And, frankly, there's not many guys in the woods then anyway, even in the SRA area I hunt from time to time.

I can't exactly argue with that line of thinking. i suppose if it were to become necessary to maintain harvest goals i may change my mind and accept other weapons into the season. there is a lot of things including what you have mentioned that can up the harvest without altering flintlock season. the fact that it is a non factor in harvest should help to preserve it as long as possible.
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post #5 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by win101 View Post
I can't exactly argue with that line of thinking. i suppose if it were to become necessary to maintain harvest goals i may change my mind and accept other weapons into the season. there is a lot of things including what you have mentioned that can up the harvest without altering flintlock season. the fact that it is a non factor in harvest should help to preserve it as long as possible.
Agreed...
There's a lot of ways to "expand opportunities" and maintain harvests without altering Flintlock season that can (and should) be implemented first...
"Encroaching" on or altering Flintlock season really should be a last resort.... and hopefully it will be... and at a VERY distant point, if ever.
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post #6 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 06:06 AM
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No line in the Sand for me...I have either supported or am indifferent to the changes that have taken place since I started hunting in the early 70s...that said...I do like that Pa. is unique in having a FL only season...so if the PGC ever messes with it...I would suggest that if they wanted to include in-lines after Christmas...then create a new FL only season (buck and doe) to run concurrent with the last week or two with the early archery season.
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post #7 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 08:00 AM
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Ive been a fan of the flint lock manly due to the reason and history of why we have it
The Pa long rifle was the go to gun in the 1800s due to german gum makers moving to Pa if they add inlines to the season the flint lock will for the most part go the way of the dodo bird
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post #8 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 08:17 AM
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I will go against the grain and say I would like to see Flintlock changed to "Traditional" and allow sidelock percussion weapons.
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post #9 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 09:41 AM
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Although I got into black powder shooting back in the late 60s, not a die hard flintlock hunter. But I do enjoy stumbling around after Christmas with one of mine. Hardly ever see another hunter, so I enjoy the peace and solitude. Plus the challenge of finding a deer, is always magnified by the additional challenge of an actual ignition and a projectile in the air?



Only change I'd like to see in flintlock season, would be to make it longer.

Almost always several days lost to bad weather, plus it's s low impact season as far as harvests go. I've already seen seasons where a week was lost due to lousy weather.

Far as I'm concerned, it should be the entire month of January, state wide.

After 60 years, got used to most of the other changes in our hunting seasons. Doesn't mean I like them all, just means I've gotten used to them.

Some folks' learnin' curves just look like circles...3A Camp/also hunt 4B
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post #10 of 110 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 11:17 AM
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Good post win101. I feel pretty much the same way. Flintlock season is my hunting time. I hate florescent orange and of course in the flintlock season its not required. Its not required because the season was created not as a management season but a season to keep and practice what our forefathers did in Pa. And there is few hunters out and its open sights only. I think the safety record is pretty good for the flintlock season. It would break my heart if they allowed scoped in lines. I've nothing against inlines but it would change the season completely and I'm sure we would be required to wear orange.

Having said that, somebody, who was it, gotta look. Okay it was rkrcpa, welcome to the forum sir, how the heck do we pronounce rkrepa? When I type it comes out like I talk. Makes it hard when you cant say something.
Any how rkrepa says he would like to see side lock percussion's allowed. You know I think I could abide that. Those are still traditional rifles and I don't think it would bring that many more guys out.

The flintlock season may well change down the road, seems all good things end in the name of progress but if it takes three or four more years before that happens there will be even fewer hunters, many fewer is my guess, and maybe it would be alright.

I know one thing. I will always hunt deer with my flintlocks and I'll never wear orange while I do it except when I hunt in buck season.

Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf.

"When a pine needle falls in the forest, the eagle sees it, the deer hears it, and the bear smells it."
an old First Nations saying

Last edited by Buckskin Dave; 01-29-2020 at 11:23 AM.
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