Bill to Remove County Treasurers from Antlerless System - Page 15 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #141 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 08:34 AM
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I have received a 1st, 2nd and if available 3rd round tag for 2D every season ever since the PGC went to WMUs zones. I can assure all that I know no one in the County Treasurers Office or the postal service.
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post #142 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pchunter1231 View Post
I dont know anyone that works at the CT where i send mine but i always get my first round and second round awarded anywhere from 07:45 and 08:15 on the first day for each round. there is usually about 2000 tags left for the second round for my WMU but we go another 6000 tags for this WMU this year.
I'm not accusing you personally. Don't take it that way. When someone is getting tags awarded in a short window of time ...with consistency, there is something more than luck in play. I'm suspect that something is going on at that CT. No one is that lucky.

Back when I applied for tags, I drove my application to Wellsboro (office that serviced the CT) and deposited it in the box labeled for the applications. It could be said that I was looking for a edge, and tampered with the process. I believe it was giving an edge over someone in another part of the state who couldn't drive there.

Looking for any way to push an application upward within the queue is a Pa tradition.
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post #143 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 10:07 AM
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The process used now allows all Pa residents to apply at the same time. The odds are no different now for a resident of a WMU not receiving a tag. It wouldn't change if it was a draw. What would change is that it would be tamper proof. Making it as tamper proof as possible should be a PGC priority.

I have to be honest and comment because I sense others do also.........the way you word things in defense the current process makes us wonder if someone on the inside is helping at the CT where you apply. You need to understand that perspective exists.

Everyone is looking for an edge! Human nature. It's a system ripe for tampering. Do you know how easy it is for a postal worker to hand cancel an application, and slip in the front of a tray before it gets handed off the CT? It may not seem like a big deal as there are so many tags to be handed out.....but it's tampering never the less. IMO, the security within the process needs to be tightened up. Every applicant deserves it. With the technology available today, the time has come.
I don't have any special privileges what so ever from the County Treasurer where I apply and my application is put in the Post Office mailbox the same time and way as thousands of others. I see dozens of local people dropping them in the post office every year in the few minutes it takes me to walk in and mail mine.

I might add that I have a pretty close relative who is a County Treasurer in one of our counties and though I speak with him pretty often I don't send to him for the very reason that someone might think I am getting special treatment or favors.

The only thing that gives me any edge is that I took the time to find out how different County Treasurers handle the applications when they get them. I selected a County Treasurer that will have employees stay as long as it takes to process all of the applications they receive every day. That way I, and everyone else, can be assured that the day their application arrives at the Treasurer's Office it is going to be processed that day.

Everyone interested in getting an antlerless license could do the same research if they wanted. But, instead they complain because they were not involved enough to increase their own chances of success. Well, shame on them if they were to uninvolved or to lazy to the research that would improve their odds and then sent it to the wrong County. I have never understood why that is such a difficult concept for people to understand and accept. But, it seem the majority have figured it out and as usual it is only a few rebels who expect the system to be changed so they don't have to show any responsibility for their own future issues, good or bad. I guess it is just a sign of the times and they way people view life today though.

For what it is worth though I will say that I am pretty certain this legislation is not going anywhere. The County Treasurers are already rallying their forces against this legislation so I suspect it will die in the House.

Dick Bodenhorn
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Last edited by R. S. B.; 06-22-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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post #144 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 10:19 AM
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It should be changed, it is an inefficient system and waste of taxpayer resources IMO.

"Too lazy to research..." please, the fact that you have to do that to find which CT offices are better than others is proof positive of my point above.

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post #145 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by R. S. B. View Post
How many DMAP permits I or anyone else has is completely irrelevant to the antlerless license process or discussion. DMAP permits are property specific which makes them very restrictive on where you can hunt as compared to the antlerless license good for an entire WMU.

But up until 2016 there were units that sold out every year before all of the residents that wanted on get one. In 2015 five WMU were sold out before the non-residents could apply. Every year a number of units are sold out before all of the non-residents who wanted one could get one. And, in my opinion even the non-resident round being sold out before everyone who wants one has an opportunity is reason for allowing those who do their homework on which County Treasurers are the fastest is relevant.

Now allow me to explain two different antlerless allocation process.

One process is what we have now where anyone can send to any County Treasurer in the state to have their application processed. For those that want a license in a unit that never sells out this process isn't important and may be a bit of an inconvenience but for those of us who hunt in a unit that sells out early this process can be important because it is a first come first serve process. Therefore, anyone who sends to a County Treasurer who processes them on the same day they get them in the applicant is pretty much assured of getting a license for the unit of their choice.

The other process, the one the Game Commission has talked about and what some hunters think they would prefer, would be a lottery type drawing for any unit that typically sells out in the first round. In that system the computer would just randomly reject an applicant even though there were still licenses available for the unit. Not a big deal you say, unless you are the one getting rejected. For many of us we live in the unit and have no desire or intent to drive to another unit to hunt. That means many residents of a unit would get rejected to hunt in their home unit while someone from some other part of the state, perhaps someone who has no interest in even using the license and only got it because they might, or might not, get a chance to hunt that unit or perhaps someone who only got one for that unit to eat up a license with no intent to use it and save a doe.

Now I ask, if you hunted one of those units that has limited licenses and seriously wanted to have an antlerless license for a specific unit which of those two systems would you prefer?

Dick Bodenhorn

I think you are wrong about the system that they want to use. From their testimony a couple of years ago they said that they would use a system like they do for concert tickets. Pretty much the same as DMAP. There are also systems out there that can be done on a lottery system just like our elk tags are.

Like I said you don't want a change for selfish reasons as you know how to work the system.

Again your PGC has said that they would like control of the system. Pretty funny that you always say how great the PGC is in everything they do. They ask for control of the antlerless licenses and now you act like they couldn't implement a better, more cost effective, and fairer system to hunters.
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post #146 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 01:10 PM
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Some of the problems we now have is the postal processing has been consolidated. Allow this simple example. Son in State Collage drops fathers day card in mail Thursday before Fathers day. His Sister does the same thing but she lives close enough to drop the mail off at Harveys Lake. Harveys lake is my post office. Son's arrives on Saturday before Fathers day. Daughters arrives Tuesday after Fathers day. Yes an alert clerk would have checked for local delivery but the process is to bag it and ship it to Allentown to be sorted.

The way it is today someone mailing in Wilkes Barre to the courthouse in Wilkes Barre can arrive later than someone who mails the same day but from a longer distance out of town. However this is only a problem for WMUs that sell out during the first round. Waugh!
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post #147 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 01:14 PM
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Erie mail goes to Pittsburgh and then back to Erie.
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post #148 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 01:18 PM
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Erie mail goes to Pittsburgh and then back to Erie.

So many have the same situation. Waugh!
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post #149 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Six-Gun View Post
Being away from PA for so long, I'm curious: with the talk about abolishing the county treasurer issuance system in favor of online apps, what is everyone's feeling about a Western-type preference point application lottery? That is, if you don't get picked for your 1st choice unit this year, you get higher priority for next year.

As has been noted, guys who apply for units that pretty much never sell out on the first go would be unaffected, as everyone who wants a tag in the first round would get one. In units with fewer tags, this system would mean that guys who prefer to mail in a paper app or apply at a vendor are at no disadvantage to people applying online. It also removes the slop of trying to time mailing, county treasurers piling apps on top of apps that were already there, etc. Most importantly, it would help prevent people from getting denied their 1st choice for multiple years in a row and people with ties inside the treasurer's offices from getting undue preference.

The catch? These Western drawing are usually conducted by out-of-state, 3rd party companies to ensure some semblance of objectivity. That, of course, costs money...

I can see many on here liking that idea. Seems they want everything the "other" states have or do more than they like what PA has been doing anyway. Waugh!
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post #150 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 04:53 PM
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It should be changed, it is an inefficient system and waste of taxpayer resources IMO.

"Too lazy to research..." please, the fact that you have to do that to find which CT offices are better than others is proof positive of my point above.
How does it cost the taxpayer anything? The taxpayers don't have a nickel in it as near as I can see.

Each County Treasurers get $1.00 for every application they process so the ones that work at it actually make some money on it.

Anyone who can't put a little effort into being successful doesn't deserve success.

Dick Bodenhorn
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