Bill to Remove County Treasurers from Antlerless System - Page 14 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #131 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:49 PM
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The tags are still WMU specific but the courthouse you use is no longer. I could send to my local courthouse or I can send to anyone in Western Pa looking for a tag in the middle of the state. First second round no matter. They can no longer top stack to beat the next guy. If you think it is happening just send it to another county, one that already sold out and ask for your county. They will not have a stack so you get done fast and get a tag for anywhere that is not sold out.



If they want to remove the county from the mix the PALs is not the only option. Send the request to the local district office and have commission employees handle the job that the treasurer's office now does for a few weeks. Seems fairest way for all is still a mail in process.

Set time for applications and tag issue for in state hunters. Next a set time for our guest from out of state. When that time is over all others become over the counter sales by CID so someone can't buy up a hand full. Maybe even at one point require a harvest report before another tag is issued. To the tune of if you have one issued to you you can buy a second but not a third until harvest is recorded. Waugh!

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post #132 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Second Round?

For some units there is no second round. I and many other hunters don't want a license for just any ole unit. If I can't hunt in the only unit I want to hunt while someone else got a permit for that unit because they might get a chance to hunt there for a few hours I find huge issues with both the logic and fairness of that type of system.

Dick Bodenhorn
How many DMAP tags did you just buy?

I know you have the data, but how long has it been in PA that a WMU sold out during the resident 1st round? Doesn't the ones that usually don't have a 2nd or not many tags in the 2nd have alot of DMAP tags?

People tend to forget in PA that you were lucky to get even 1 doe tag. If you killed a buck then you couldn't even kill a doe.
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post #133 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 06:53 PM
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That was a long time ago! I don't know anyone who didn't get the doe tag thy applied for unless they waited until the last minute.
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post #134 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 06:54 PM
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How many DMAP tags did you just buy?

I know you have the data, but how long has it been in PA that a WMU sold out during the resident 1st round? Doesn't the ones that usually don't have a 2nd or not many tags in the 2nd have alot of DMAP tags?

People tend to forget in PA that you were lucky to get even 1 doe tag. If you killed a buck then you couldn't even kill a doe.
I remember it well, and I'm sure Dick does too. I also remember how a lot of hunters handled the dilemma, but I'm not going there.
When applying for a doe tag you have three choices of WMU to receive one. If you only care to receive one in only one particular WMU, it's a no brainer on which WMU you apply for. If say you want a tag for 2 different units, it becomes a game. Like any game the more you play the better you become at it. I have two different units I apply for, one in the first round the other in the second, if licenses are still available, which they usually are. The key is to know which unit usually gets sold out first, and the number of tags available this year compared to last. I usually receive a tag for both units, having just said that, this year I probably won't.
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post #135 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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That was a long time ago! I don't know anyone who didn't get the doe tag thy applied for unless they waited until the last minute.
There was a time when people wouldn't get any doe tag and they dropped them off at the post office so the CT would have them on Monday morning. Yes that has been a long time ago.
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post #136 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 10:45 PM
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How many DMAP tags did you just buy?

I know you have the data, but how long has it been in PA that a WMU sold out during the resident 1st round? Doesn't the ones that usually don't have a 2nd or not many tags in the 2nd have alot of DMAP tags?

People tend to forget in PA that you were lucky to get even 1 doe tag. If you killed a buck then you couldn't even kill a doe.
How many DMAP permits I or anyone else has is completely irrelevant to the antlerless license process or discussion. DMAP permits are property specific which makes them very restrictive on where you can hunt as compared to the antlerless license good for an entire WMU.

But up until 2016 there were units that sold out every year before all of the residents that wanted on get one. In 2015 five WMU were sold out before the non-residents could apply. Every year a number of units are sold out before all of the non-residents who wanted one could get one. And, in my opinion even the non-resident round being sold out before everyone who wants one has an opportunity is reason for allowing those who do their homework on which County Treasurers are the fastest is relevant.

Now allow me to explain two different antlerless allocation process.

One process is what we have now where anyone can send to any County Treasurer in the state to have their application processed. For those that want a license in a unit that never sells out this process isn't important and may be a bit of an inconvenience but for those of us who hunt in a unit that sells out early this process can be important because it is a first come first serve process. Therefore, anyone who sends to a County Treasurer who processes them on the same day they get them in the applicant is pretty much assured of getting a license for the unit of their choice.

The other process, the one the Game Commission has talked about and what some hunters think they would prefer, would be a lottery type drawing for any unit that typically sells out in the first round. In that system the computer would just randomly reject an applicant even though there were still licenses available for the unit. Not a big deal you say, unless you are the one getting rejected. For many of us we live in the unit and have no desire or intent to drive to another unit to hunt. That means many residents of a unit would get rejected to hunt in their home unit while someone from some other part of the state, perhaps someone who has no interest in even using the license and only got it because they might, or might not, get a chance to hunt that unit or perhaps someone who only got one for that unit to eat up a license with no intent to use it and save a doe.

Now I ask, if you hunted one of those units that has limited licenses and seriously wanted to have an antlerless license for a specific unit which of those two systems would you prefer?

Dick Bodenhorn
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post #137 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 11:15 PM
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I agree RSB, if I could not get one for my property or close area I have no desire to drive to different units to take a doe. I really think the system works pretty well, I always did wonder who thought of the idea for the CT to handle it. Hunting Pa. in the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's as a NR I never got a chance for a doe license a few times in later years. I do remember Bedford county in the 70's only giving like 5-6k and many residents did not get and no way for a NR. I used to be friends with a guy that said his dad always got # 1 doe license number he was friends with the CT. If that was true or not I don't know or ever heard anything else bad of the CT during those years.
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post #138 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 03:23 AM
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Being away from PA for so long, I'm curious: with the talk about abolishing the county treasurer issuance system in favor of online apps, what is everyone's feeling about a Western-type preference point application lottery? That is, if you don't get picked for your 1st choice unit this year, you get higher priority for next year.

As has been noted, guys who apply for units that pretty much never sell out on the first go would be unaffected, as everyone who wants a tag in the first round would get one. In units with fewer tags, this system would mean that guys who prefer to mail in a paper app or apply at a vendor are at no disadvantage to people applying online. It also removes the slop of trying to time mailing, county treasurers piling apps on top of apps that were already there, etc. Most importantly, it would help prevent people from getting denied their 1st choice for multiple years in a row and people with ties inside the treasurer's offices from getting undue preference.

The catch? These Western drawing are usually conducted by out-of-state, 3rd party companies to ensure some semblance of objectivity. That, of course, costs money...

Last edited by Six-Gun; 06-22-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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post #139 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by R. S. B. View Post
How many DMAP permits I or anyone else has is completely irrelevant to the antlerless license process or discussion. DMAP permits are property specific which makes them very restrictive on where you can hunt as compared to the antlerless license good for an entire WMU.

But up until 2016 there were units that sold out every year before all of the residents that wanted on get one. In 2015 five WMU were sold out before the non-residents could apply. Every year a number of units are sold out before all of the non-residents who wanted one could get one. And, in my opinion even the non-resident round being sold out before everyone who wants one has an opportunity is reason for allowing those who do their homework on which County Treasurers are the fastest is relevant.

Now allow me to explain two different antlerless allocation process.

One process is what we have now where anyone can send to any County Treasurer in the state to have their application processed. For those that want a license in a unit that never sells out this process isn't important and may be a bit of an inconvenience but for those of us who hunt in a unit that sells out early this process can be important because it is a first come first serve process. Therefore, anyone who sends to a County Treasurer who processes them on the same day they get them in the applicant is pretty much assured of getting a license for the unit of their choice.

The other process, the one the Game Commission has talked about and what some hunters think they would prefer, would be a lottery type drawing for any unit that typically sells out in the first round. In that system the computer would just randomly reject an applicant even though there were still licenses available for the unit. Not a big deal you say, unless you are the one getting rejected. For many of us we live in the unit and have no desire or intent to drive to another unit to hunt. That means many residents of a unit would get rejected to hunt in their home unit while someone from some other part of the state, perhaps someone who has no interest in even using the license and only got it because they might, or might not, get a chance to hunt that unit or perhaps someone who only got one for that unit to eat up a license with no intent to use it and save a doe.

Now I ask, if you hunted one of those units that has limited licenses and seriously wanted to have an antlerless license for a specific unit which of those two systems would you prefer?

Dick Bodenhorn
The process used now allows all Pa residents to apply at the same time. The odds are no different now for a resident of a WMU not receiving a tag. It wouldn't change if it was a draw. What would change is that it would be tamper proof. Making it as tamper proof as possible should be a PGC priority.

I have to be honest and comment because I sense others do also.........the way you word things in defense the current process makes us wonder if someone on the inside is helping at the CT where you apply. You need to understand that perspective exists.

Everyone is looking for an edge! Human nature. It's a system ripe for tampering. Do you know how easy it is for a postal worker to hand cancel an application, and slip in the front of a tray before it gets handed off the CT? It may not seem like a big deal as there are so many tags to be handed out.....but it's tampering never the less. IMO, the security within the process needs to be tightened up. Every applicant deserves it. With the technology available today, the time has come.
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post #140 of 411 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 07:09 AM
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I dont know anyone that works at the CT where i send mine but i always get my first round and second round awarded anywhere from 07:45 and 08:15 on the first day for each round. there is usually about 2000 tags left for the second round for my WMU but we go another 6000 tags for this WMU this year.
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