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post #241 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 09:57 PM
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What I’m saying is that worrying about how PGC manages deer with Sunday hunting is rather immaterial unless PGC is going to get the authority to do so.

Unless/until they do, this is all conjecture at best.

I’m sure they already have some idea of what they would do if it’s granted. And then you’ll get to see it if/when they get the authority to use it, and if/when they decide to do so.

Being given the authority to do so and actually doing it aren’t definitively linked.

They could easily choose to, for example, add only small game the first time around.

Who knows?

But at this point, debating the fine points of deer hunting on Sundays is kind of academic, at best, because it’s not a reality for the foreseeable future.
correct, but then there is no reason for me to support it. Why would I support giving them authority that they may use to inact something that has a negative outcome? If I am to support Sunday for deer then I need to know they have a way to keep tag reductions from happening.
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post #242 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:01 PM
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I get that.

I think many are looking at the order of operations.

Right now, supporting Sunday hunting is supporting PGC having that regulatory authority.

Once and if that occurs, then the debate would turn to what they do with that authority.

If you are concerned that they will not be able to prove to your satisfaction that they would never reduce tag allocations, then you should remain of the same mind you are now.

I guess I’m just suggesting that you not oppose or argue against it just yet when the concerns you’re expressing are several steps down the road from where we are currently.

You’ll never see any plan from PGC, I’d bet, to manage deer with Sunday hunting if they aren’t going to have a need to use such a plan. Why would they bother releasing it when there’s no obvious use for it?
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post #243 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:07 PM
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I get that.

I think many are looking at the order of operations.

Right now, supporting Sunday hunting is supporting PGC having that regulatory authority.

Once and if that occurs, then the debate would turn to what they do with that authority.

If you are concerned that they will not be able to prove to your satisfaction that they would never reduce tag allocations, then you should remain of the same mind you are now.

I guess I’m just suggesting that you not oppose or argue against it just yet when the concerns you’re expressing are several steps down the road from where we are currently.

You’ll never see any plan from PGC, I’d bet, to manage deer with Sunday hunting if they aren’t going to have a need to use such a plan. Why would they bother releasing it when there’s no obvious use for it?
for the record I’ve only spoken against it here. I have no plans to contact the lawmakers and speak against Sunday’s. If the PGC would present a plan they could have more people contacting legislators in favor of Sunday. The PGC wants Sunday, they should be trying to convince me that I want Sunday too.

Once they have authority there will be nothing to be done to stop Sunday’s.

Last edited by Cscott1; 06-03-2019 at 10:11 PM.
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post #244 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:09 PM
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I’m curious... how does one definitively prove a negative in advance...?

Meaning, what proof would suffice to prove a certain effect would NOT occur if a given action is undertaken?

I am not sure how that could be done. But I’m curious to hear what might be considered capable of such.
It can’t be done and that leads to speculation. Worse yet, it leads to people making claims that negative things WILL happen and that it is essentially up to the opposition to prove that it WONT happen. There is no better example of this kind of thinking than with a major story in the news right now...

“I can’t prove that he DID do it but I can’t prove that he DIDNT do it either. Thus, it is the responsibility of the accused to prove that he didn’t do it”...
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post #245 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tdd View Post
What I’m saying is that worrying about how PGC manages deer with Sunday hunting is rather immaterial unless PGC is going to get the authority to do so.

Unless/until they do, this is all conjecture at best.

I’m sure they already have some idea of what they would do if it’s granted. And then you’ll get to see it if/when they get the authority to use it, and if/when they decide to do so.

Being given the authority to do so and actually doing it aren’t definitively linked.

They could easily choose to, for example, add only small game the first time around.

Who knows?

But at this point, debating the fine points of deer hunting on Sundays is kind of academic, at best, because it’s not a reality for the foreseeable future.
correct, but then there is no reason for me to support it. Why would I support giving them authority that they may use to inact something that has a negative outcome? If I am to support Sunday for deer then I need to know they have a way to keep tag reductions from happening.
Literally ANY decision they make regarding hunting COULD have a negative outcome for someone. Should ALL of their “authority” to make decisions be taken away because SOMEONE might be negatively affected?
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post #246 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:20 PM
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I don’t really know what happens if “too many” bucks are taken. More strict maybe? Limited buck tags? I can’t support something without at least a basic outline of a plan.
If that was going to happen, it would have done so when we were over 1 million hunters as a state....and perhaps it actually did due to lack of AR's....when you would see 50 deer and only one of them had 4" spikes.

With AR's in place and 25%+ less hunters than we had in the heyday, it's not going to happen.


As for antlerless allocations, they fluctuate each year based on the previous year's success rate, input from biologists, etc....I'm not sure how you are going to be able to determine a decrease in allocations based solely on Sunday(s) being included. The PGC actually added deer hunting opportunity this year (in the form of late archery and flintlock) and at the same time increased antlerless allocations by 8%+. Go figure.
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post #247 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:24 PM
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Our rifle deer season is 12 days long, with 3 “high impact”’days.

IF Sunday hunting became a reality and was applied to rifle season, I envision the season to start on Saturday and end on the following Sunday. 8 days long, with 4 “high impact” days. Would that be detrimental to the deer numbers and force a reduction in doe allocations? 4 less days to hunt total but an extra “high impact” day?

These are all numbers and scenarios that the PGC and their biologists and such would have to crunch the numbers on and come up with their plan of attack. Believe me, it won’t be willy nilly and poorly thought out.

And I disagree with a “slow roll” approach to Sunday hunting. Saying that this Sunday in small game will be open and that Sunday in archery will be open would create nothing but chaos and confusion and the whole thing would just create more division among the different sects of hunters, with this group being angry that, that group gets to hunt a Sunday and they don’t. If they decide to implement it, it should be across the board from the get-go.
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post #248 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:25 PM
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What I’m saying is that worrying about how PGC manages deer with Sunday hunting is rather immaterial unless PGC is going to get the authority to do so.

Unless/until they do, this is all conjecture at best.

I’m sure they already have some idea of what they would do if it’s granted. And then you’ll get to see it if/when they get the authority to use it, and if/when they decide to do so.

Being given the authority to do so and actually doing it aren’t definitively linked.

They could easily choose to, for example, add only small game the first time around.

Who knows?

But at this point, debating the fine points of deer hunting on Sundays is kind of academic, at best, because it’s not a reality for the foreseeable future.
correct, but then there is no reason for me to support it. Why would I support giving them authority that they may use to inact something that has a negative outcome? If I am to support Sunday for deer then I need to know they have a way to keep tag reductions from happening.
Literally ANY decision they make regarding hunting COULD have a negative outcome for someone. Should ALL of their “authority” to make decisions be taken away because SOMEONE might be negatively affected?
I gave zero confidence that the boc will do what is right for hunters. They need to show me what they plan on doing with that authority before I support them having it. Give me some indication that they can add this “extra time” without actually reducing opportunities.
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post #249 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:32 PM
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I gave zero confidence that the boc will do what is right for hunters. They need to show me what they plan on doing with that authority before I support them having it. Give me some indication that they can add this “extra time” without actually reducing opportunities.
The way I read that, then, is that you oppose the PGC having the regulatory authority to utilize Sundays for hunting if they wish due to a lack of trust in the BOC.

That's an opinion and you're most entitled to it, but I do read it as you opposing the authority being transferred to the BOC.
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post #250 of 509 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:36 PM
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Our rifle deer season is 12 days long, with 3 “high impact”’days.

IF Sunday hunting became a reality and was applied to rifle season, I envision the season to start on Saturday and end on the following Sunday. 8 days long, with 4 “high impact” days. Would that be detrimental to the deer numbers and force a reduction in doe allocations? 4 less days to hunt total but an extra “high impact” day?

These are all numbers and scenarios that the PGC and their biologists and such would have to crunch the numbers on and come up with their plan of attack. Believe me, it won’t be willy nilly and poorly thought out.

And I disagree with a “slow roll” approach to Sunday hunting. Saying that this Sunday in small game will be open and that Sunday in archery will be open would create nothing but chaos and confusion and the whole thing would just create more division among the different sects of hunters, with this group being angry that, that group gets to hunt a Sunday and they don’t. If they decide to implement it, it should be across the board from the get-go.
adding one high impact day and 4 regular days dropped the allocations by 20%. That didn’t have 6 added days in archery or the days added in early muzzleloader, special jr/sr season,flintlock. They will drop allocations if they add Sunday’s

How can you call loosing 4 days adding opportunity?

I will agree if they are going to do it then do it all the way
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