Saturday Opener - Page 24 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #231 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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That's not what cspot's post is saying, though.

He's saying the BOC might have had data generated that showed a loss of hunter participants once they went to college and missed opening day due to college commitments.

If that is truly the data set they have, that should be compelling. If we're bleeding hunters when they leave home and go to college and could take a step to possibly retain some of those hunters, why WOULDN'T we do that?
that would be compelling if the data could show that simply missing the opener cause them to quit. And if there is enough data to show they won’t loose other hunters over it.

I’d also expect those who lived through a similar situation and didn’t quit to say “suck it up”
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post #232 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:27 PM
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that would be compelling if the data could show that simply missing the opener cause them to quit. And if there is enough data to show they wonít loose other hunters over it.

Iíd also expect those who lived through a similar situation and didnít quit to say ďsuck it upĒ
I went to college. I "lived through a similar situation and didn't quit."

I will not say "suck it up."

I have a kid in her junior year in HS. She likes to hunt.

She said to me this year, actually... "So, what am I going to do when I'm in college? How will I get to hunt?"

I told her we'd do what we could, but it depends on where she goes and how far away it is and other such things.

And hey, there's people who go into careers or the military who lose the ability to hunt opening day for years as well.

BUT....If we COULD improve retention of hunters who go to college and drift away, wouldn't we want to try it?

You're seemingly looking for a guaranteed return on investment. That simply doesn't exist in anything, anywhere, at any time. "How we've always done it" has shepherded us quite successfully through a peak of 1.2 million hunters and down to 900,000 hunters.

Selfishly, it'd be great to lose 50% of that number and throw open the doors on all our seasons...lots of tags, lots of days to hunt like they have in other areas of the country. Wouldn't that be awesome? For....a generation. Or two. And then the piper would demand his payment at the cost of hunting as a whole.

I do value tradition. The tradition of hunting in PA. I'm willing to take some chances on "investments" (changes) to help improve the outlook of hunting. You don't get rich off one day of training or one meeting of a college class, but get a degree or technical certification and you've improved your marketability as an asset to an employer...which improves your earning potential...which gives you financial freedom to explore other endeavors, make other investments, etc....to accumulate wealth....to get rich.

But it's a lot of small things that add up to big things over time. Not doing them also adds up...in the opposite direction.

You go out to eat, and man it's good food. You eat a LOT. I mean...you're stuffed.

Will you gain 50lbs?

No.

If you do that every weekend, yes, you'll gain 50 (or more) pounds.

You ate a salad one day. Did you lose 50lbs? No. And you won't.

Unless you eat better for a sustained period of time.

Little changes, little increments....
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post #233 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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You guys do realize they are losing hunters at every age bracket not just college kids. There are more seasons than rifle for college kids to hunt deer. The guys i graduated with had no issues finding the time when they were in college and they still hunt. Still not a reason to change the opener because Johnny is in college and he is the son of someone i the BOC. BOO HOO.
IRRC the college age had the biggest drop. Some of those come back in later year, but some do not.

Traditions only last if you pass them down to your kids!
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post #234 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tdd View Post
That's not what cspot's post is saying, though.

He's saying the BOC might have had data generated that showed a loss of hunter participants once they went to college and missed opening day due to college commitments.

If that is truly the data set they have, that should be compelling. If we're bleeding hunters when they leave home and go to college and could take a step to possibly retain some of those hunters, why WOULDN'T we do that?
I didn't say that they have evidence that missing opening day was causing them not to buy a license and hunt. The do have data that they lose alot of hunters at that age group. I think that age group shows the biggest loss of hunters. It is widely known that most colleges start the Monday after Thanksgiving. Many have tests that week as the semester is finishing up too.

Traditions only last if you pass them down to your kids!
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post #235 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:45 PM
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We are lumping all college goers into one. How many of these college kids are not archery hunting? Small game? Of those, how many drop out of hunting forever just because they miss the opening Monday of rifle deer? Of those that quit do to missing the opening Monday, I'm guessing a number of life distractions that will prevail anyway.


Saturday good or bad? I don't know. For in the moment, the college issue is a vehicle getting traction. Interesting that I see more parents voicing in favor, but not hearing from a groundswell of college kids themselves.
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post #236 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:47 PM
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TDD...of course there’s is never a guarantee on investment, but you have to look at what could come in return. In this case what’s the best that could happen? How many college students are we really loosing because the miss the opener for 2, 4 or 8 years? How may would be gone after graduation and on to a new life anyway? Are we loosing them at a higher rate than states with a Saturday opener and did going to a Saturday slow decline there?

I’d say the beast case return here is still very low and I don’t see it as being worth the cost of the investment. Little incriminates are fine but not with huge upfront cost.
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post #237 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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We are lumping all college goers into one. How many of these college kids are not archery hunting? Small game? Of those, how many drop out of hunting forever just because they miss the opening Monday of rifle deer? Of those that quit do to missing the opening Monday, I'm guessing a number of life distractions that will prevail anyway.


Saturday good or bad? I don't know. For in the moment, the college issue is a vehicle getting traction. Interesting that I see more parents voicing in favor, but not hearing from a groundswell of college kids themselves.

How many college age kids are on a forum? Most of them don't use Facebook either as that is too old school.

I agree that there are other things at that age that is causing distractions besides college. Some are just starting careers which can make it difficult to get off of work. A Saturday makes more sense for them. Some joint the military and that is probably going to remove them from the game all together for those years.

Like TDD said thru a series of small changes maybe you retain a few more of those hunters at that age.

Traditions only last if you pass them down to your kids!
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post #238 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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TDD...of course thereís is never a guarantee on investment, but you have to look at what could come in return. In this case whatís the best that could happen? How many college students are we really loosing because the miss the opener for 2, 4 or 8 years? How may would be gone after graduation and on to a new life anyway? Are we loosing them at a higher rate than states with a Saturday opener and did going to a Saturday slow decline there?

Iíd say the beast case return here is still very low and I donít see it as being worth the cost of the investment. Little incriminates are fine but not with huge upfront cost.

How huge of an upfront cost is this? It is 1 day? They try it for a few years and if it isn't working as they hoped they can always change it back.

Traditions only last if you pass them down to your kids!
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post #239 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:51 PM
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How many leave the state for a job after they graduate, they are gone whether they continue to hunt or not.

When you are up to your butt in alligators, it is hard to remember your intent was to drain the swamp. Stay focused!
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post #240 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cscott1 View Post
TDD...of course there’s is never a guarantee on investment, but you have to look at what could come in return. In this case what’s the best that could happen? How many college students are we really loosing because the miss the opener for 2, 4 or 8 years? How may would be gone after graduation and on to a new life anyway? Are we loosing them at a higher rate than states with a Saturday opener and did going to a Saturday slow decline there?

I’d say the beast case return here is still very low and I don’t see it as being worth the cost of the investment. Little incriminates are fine but not with huge upfront cost.

How huge of an upfront cost is this? It is 1 day? They try it for a few years and if it isn't working as they hoped they can always change it back.
you’re kidding right? Change it back?! Never happen.

The cost of going against the preference of the majority of hunters and ending a 60 year tradition.
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