Saturday Opener - Page 22 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #211 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 10:53 AM
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ok so what management issue does this solve?
None... it's a social issue...if the PGC believes it will benefit more hunters than it will hurt...then it will happen.
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post #212 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 10:57 AM
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What if they move it to Saturday and Sunday hunting is opened? What if rifle season suddenly had 2 more days? Those greedy archers got all that time, it's time the rifle guys get more, right? And it's moving the start date earlier, which is what EEEEEEEEEEEEEVERYONE wants, because everyone wants to hunt with their chosen weapon in the middle of November. That's really what the factions of deer hunters usually fight about.

Archers want to keep their time then.

Muzzleloader advocates want in on it.

Rifle hunters feel like they get the short end of the stick because they don't get to hunt till after that time (which was by design when we had a million hunters kicking bushes....that couldn't happen during the rut).

So....this would start inching rifle hunting (and, by the way, that opens it up for muzzleloaders, too) closer to the ever-coveted middle of November.

What if, gasp, hunters don't increase participation on Saturday? Why, that means we didn't also increase the harvest, right? That means...drum roll.....the BOC could actually consider opening rifle season the Saturday BEFORE Thanksgiving. Imagine that for a moment. Imagine if, as the detractors for the Saturday opener predict, no increased participation happens. The horror....but it means then that rifle can expand MORE.

Imagine a 3 week rifle season for a moment. Imagine a tradition of going hunting on Thanksgiving morning. Imagine Black Friday being about dragging deer and not dragging shopping bags around.

I can't help but think offering rifle hunters more time on the back end of the season would be a hollow gesture to most....participation by the middle of the season is nill in 5C where I hunt most years. Add a week....yeah, people will hunt, but the ones who gave up by the 2nd Saturday will still have given up.

Everyone wants more time closer to mid-November. This creeps rifle season in that direction. It could lead to that creep going further in the direction I would think most would want it to go.

I'm a bow, rifle, and flintlock hunter. I don't care really if you tell me I can start earlier with a rifle, because I'm already hunting then with a bow. You're just giving me longer reach earlier. Cool.

But if folks want more rifle hunting season to exist, this is the direction most I'd think would want it to go (earlier), and you won't get a week or so at a clip. You get a couple days because rifle season is high impact.

Yes, it changes a long standing opening day.

You can't get improvements without change. You can't get more time without change. You can't take time from the archers (isn't that EVERYONE'S goal???? ) without pushing the rifle opener earlier.


Last edited by tdd; 01-19-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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post #213 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:06 AM
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Remember crossbows...IIRC...most deer hunters didn't want them...the "gun only" hunters were already complaining about archery season...and most "bowhunters" didn't want them either...the PGC allowed them anyway...now there are more deer hunters taking advantage of archery season...buying more archery licenses...win win.

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post #214 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Opening deer season on the Saturday after Thanksgiving does not add opportunity for everyone. It only adds opportunity for those who prefer hunting deer over hunting small game. It takes a Saturday away from those who would rather small game hunt than shoot a deer.

I am fine with firearms deer season starting on a Saturday but also believe that either another Saturday should be added at the beginning of the small game season or that small game hunting should be legal during the firearms deer season.

Yes it does take away from small game 1 day. How many days have been added to small game in the last decade? To say that small game is getting the short end of the stick would be an understatement.

I do agree that small game should be legal during the firearms season. THis isn't 30 years ago when there would be alot of conflict. If nothing else make it legal the 2nd week.
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post #215 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Cscott1 View Post
ok so what management issue does this solve?
None... it's a social issue...if the PGC believes it will benefit more hunters than it will hurt...then it will happen.
their own poll shows 62% preferred things as they are. Why go against that? Why would they not trust their own data? How can this do anything positive?
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post #216 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:22 AM
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What if they move it to Saturday and Sunday hunting is opened? What if rifle season suddenly had 2 more days? Those greedy archers got all that time, it's time the rifle guys get more, right? And it's moving the start date earlier, which is what EEEEEEEEEEEEEVERYONE wants, because everyone wants to hunt with their chosen weapon in the middle of November. That's really what the factions of deer hunters usually fight about.

Archers want to keep their time then.

Muzzleloader advocates want in on it.

Rifle hunters feel like they get the short end of the stick because they don't get to hunt till after that time (which was by design when we had a million hunters kicking bushes....that couldn't happen during the rut).

So....this would start inching rifle hunting (and, by the way, that opens it up for muzzleloaders, too) closer to the ever-coveted middle of November.

What if, gasp, hunters don't increase participation on Saturday? Why, that means we didn't also increase the harvest, right? That means...drum roll.....the BOC could actually consider opening rifle season the Saturday BEFORE Thanksgiving. Imagine that for a moment. Imagine if, as the detractors for the Saturday opener predict, no increased participation happens. The horror....but it means then that rifle can expand MORE.

Imagine a 3 week rifle season for a moment. Imagine a tradition of going hunting on Thanksgiving morning. Imagine Black Friday being about dragging deer and not dragging shopping bags around.

I can't help but think offering rifle hunters more time on the back end of the season would be a hollow gesture to most....participation by the middle of the season is nill in 5C where I hunt most years. Add a week....yeah, people will hunt, but the ones who gave up by the 2nd Saturday will still have given up.

Everyone wants more time closer to mid-November. This creeps rifle season in that direction. It could lead to that creep going further in the direction I would think most would want it to go.

I'm a bow, rifle, and flintlock hunter. I don't care really if you tell me I can start earlier with a rifle, because I'm already hunting then with a bow. You're just giving me longer reach earlier. Cool.

But if folks want more rifle hunting season to exist, this is the direction most I'd think would want it to go (earlier), and you won't get a week or so at a clip. You get a couple days because rifle season is high impact.

Yes, it changes a long standing opening day.

You can't get improvements without change. You can't get more time without change. You can't take time from the archers (isn't that EVERYONE'S goal???? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] ) without pushing the rifle opener earlier.

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
if those type of opportunities where on the table then I’d expect support to be greater. At that point rifle hunters would be actually getting more in exchange for their preferred way. But at this time none of it is and hasn’t been suggested by anyone of consequence.
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post #217 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:23 AM
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their own poll shows 62% preferred things as they are. Why go against that? Why would they not trust their own data? How can this do anything positive?
Read my crossbow comment.

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post #218 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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Thought i read that some of the BOC kids couldn’t hunt Monday so they wanna make Saturday a day they could rifle hunt, how bout they go to college and earn their degree and worry about hunting when that happens.

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post #219 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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Remember crossbows...IIRC...most deer hunters didn't want them...the "gun only" hunters were already complaining about archery season...and most "bowhunters" didn't want them either...the PGC allowed them anyway...now there are more deer hunters taking advantage of archery season...buying more archery licenses...win win.
yep that’s a common argument. But no one has any numbers on how many were against crossbows and then actually made the change. Besides even those who did could be thinking of you can’t beat them join them. Rifle only hunters complain about archery season length but don’t really care what weapon is used so why not pick up a rifle-like bow and add six weeks to your season.
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post #220 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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if those type of opportunities where on the table then I’d expect support to be greater. At that point rifle hunters would be actually getting more in exchange for their preferred way. But at this time none of it is and hasn’t been suggested by anyone of consequence.
And those things WON'T be on the table UNTIL movement starts in that direction.

As long as people say they want their Monday opener come heck or high water, that will end that movement toward everything (this is my opinion) I mentioned above. Unless the BOC decides to make a decision that isn't inline with a poll......
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