Saturday Opener - Page 10 - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #91 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 09:57 PM
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However anyone feels about any of the proposed changes, let the BOC know. I’ve emailed on several topics and yes sometimes all you get is the standard reply but commissioner Dailey has sent reply’s on some topics. If there is not a direct management “need” for a change then hunter opinion can, and in my opinion should, weigh on their decisions.
You have Daley’s email? I looked quick earlier but didn’t see it...

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post #92 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 10:19 PM
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I have read many teacher contracts from districts across the entire state, and can say I have NEVER seen one that included specific days off for anything. Never. Not one.


Your local school board sets the calendar for the school year, not your local teachers union. I brought this up to TDD and he replied that he was an admin for support staff. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but support staff admin have relatively zero to do with teachers and probably he has never seen a teacher contract. If he has read the teacher contract (CBA) at his district I would be astounded.
Ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk......... ...

So....

Yes, I goofed on that post. And it was corrected by someone (maybe you, I don't recall, it was some time ago and I didn't go back and look for it just now). Since the conversation moved on, I decided it wasn't important for me to post about it again.

Now it's back.

Yes, I flip flopped teachers and support staff in my brain. I can say I was tired, not thinking straight, whatever...point is, I screwed up that post. It was pointed out, and correct info given.

With all due respect, you know jack about my background. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but your post seems to read with a lot of condescension and disrespect and while I know nothing about you either, I'd appreciate at least the benefit of the doubt.

Point of fact...I'm a certified teacher, have taught at multiple levels, and have worked in several roles in public ed. I'm in the second half of my career.

Did I screw up that post? Yep. Sure did.

Can we be done with this now?

Last edited by tdd; 01-17-2019 at 10:26 PM.
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post #93 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cscott1 View Post
However anyone feels about any of the proposed changes, let the BOC know. I’ve emailed on several topics and yes sometimes all you get is the standard reply but commissioner Dailey has sent reply’s on some topics. If there is not a direct management “need” for a change then hunter opinion can, and in my opinion should, weigh on their decisions.
You have Daley’s email? I looked quick earlier but didn’t see it...
I’m not sure if I still have it. The first emails I sent were to the comments address and some replies came from Daley. I’ll look to see if I saved any.
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post #94 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 07:19 AM
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I still don't understand the logic behind the Saturday opener. The people who have been fighting to make Sunday hunting legal have been using the same argument for years: "Kids have too many other things to do on Saturday,extracurricular activities,games,practices,etc. They need an opportunity to hunt on Sunday" So now,all of a sudden,a Saturday opener is going to bring a lot of new or young hunters into the fold?! How? Explain!
As far as the adults are concerned,these are not the 50s and 60s,when everybody worked a Monday through Friday job,and had the weekends off. To many people,Saturday is just another day in the work week!
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For the most part, the Saturday activity argument has merit....but the Saturday after Thanksgiving is definitely a little different than other Saturdays in the fall/winter.
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post #95 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 08:12 AM
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If implemented.......wonder if school districts will eliminate the traditional "Deer Season Monday" holiday?? Could result in shortening school year calendar by a day.

How many schools still do that? They could still have off because of tradition. Or bank it, in case of extra snow days.
Pretty much every school in the northern tier still has Mon and Tues off

"Most people miss opportunity because it comes dressed in overalls, and looks like hard work"
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post #96 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 08:12 AM
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The Game Commission is charged with managing the wild. Dick Bodenhorn
But only 313 days a year, not 365. But I digress; To my way of thinking, I'm not so sure the ML bear season is going to have all that much impact other than the Saturday. I could see groups getting together then to do drives since you can shoot both bear and deer. I think the guys who have to choose between ML bear season and rifle bear season will choose rifle. I usually only hunt that Sat of ML because my son is a junior hunter. He plays football so Saturday is all that's available to him. I may actually have to send for a 2F tag for the first time in years.

I don't have ducks. I don't have rows. I have squirrels. And they're drunk.
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post #97 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 08:21 AM
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The people who have been fighting to make Sunday hunting legal have been using the same argument for years: "Kids have too many other things to do on Saturday,extracurricular activities,games,practices,etc. They need an opportunity to hunt on Sunday" So now,all of a sudden,a Saturday opener is going to bring a lot of new or young hunters into the fold?! How? Explain!
There are no planned sports or other activities on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Any other Saturday, there would be lots of stuff going on. Not this Saturday. It's very simple.
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post #98 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 08:25 AM
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The vast majority of PA public schools have off the Monday after Thanksgiving. Some do not, but they are in the miniority.

Would this change it... if we moved the deer opener to Saturday? Maybe. It would take time. Probably a minimum of 2 or 3 years. I say that because this is what has to happen to have schools make this change:

1- schools have to become aware of the change; this is not trivial. It may not be widely known in the first year of implementation. Also, point of info--- school calendars for 2019/2020 school year are being drafted and discussed in front of boards RIGHT NOW. By April, they are sometimes already done and distributed. Could they change? Sure. But district admin is loathe to change a calendar unless forced to do so. This would not "force" them to.

2- Schools have to decide to take that Monday back as a school day. Culturally this may present challenges, as parents are accustomed to having that day as a non-school day. While some would prefer it be a school day to resolve child care issues, some would not.

3-Taking that day as a school day will mean discussions with employees. Can they direct teachers to work that day? Yeah. However a major shift like that would beg for a dialog with teachers prior to just changing it. Can they direct support staff to work that day? Not if it's a designated paid holiday, they can't. Schools don't run without support staff. Period. Can't bring in the secretaries and facilities people and that building isn't opening.

Since my background was called into question, I'll be transparent... I'm a IT Director for a district. My direct reports are support staff but my job role works heavily with all staffing levels in the district....everything from operational issues to training/professional development and working with teachers in classrooms.

School doesn't happen on a support staff contractual holiday. So...if that's in play, it has to be either changed by an MOU or by contract negotiations. Depending on the relationship of the support staff union and the district, this is no sure thing to change quickly. If the district wants the change, it'll happen. But it won't be immediate if the union isn't in favor of it. Short of offering a trade off...meaning either an increased benefit or a day off somewhere else, I'm not sure this is an easy sell to any bargaining unit.

So...can it happen? Yeah. It's not as easy as "oh hey, come to school Monday, we changed our mind...."

There's more to it than that.
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post #99 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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Actually most people are off that Saturday after Thanksgiving. Adding a day to the season is adding opportunity. I do agree a Saturday opener will drop participation on Monday some. Still you are adding a day to the season. That is adding opportunity.
Like I said It’s like removing the last week of archery in November and adding two weeks to the end of the winter season. Technically they added more opportunity but in reality they simply put it at a time when most people don’t want it at the cost of something they do want.

People want to hunt the opening day because it’s the opening day while some some hunt till Tuesday and maybe Wednesday. So if they open the season on Saturday I foresee that many people will go home Sunday while others that have to miss Saturday due to other obligations will not bother going at all. You now have a net loss in total participation that completely defeats the purpose of going to the Saturday opener.
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post #100 of 442 (permalink) Old 01-18-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tdd View Post
Ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk......... ...

So....

Yes, I goofed on that post. And it was corrected by someone (maybe you, I don't recall, it was some time ago and I didn't go back and look for it just now). Since the conversation moved on, I decided it wasn't important for me to post about it again.

Now it's back.

Yes, I flip flopped teachers and support staff in my brain. I can say I was tired, not thinking straight, whatever...point is, I screwed up that post. It was pointed out, and correct info given.

With all due respect, you know jack about my background. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but your post seems to read with a lot of condescension and disrespect and while I know nothing about you either, I'd appreciate at least the benefit of the doubt.

Point of fact...I'm a certified teacher, have taught at multiple levels, and have worked in several roles in public ed. I'm in the second half of my career.

Did I screw up that post? Yep. Sure did.

Can we be done with this now?
OAWC was repeating incorrect info and my intent was to stop it from spreading further. I had no secondary agenda of bashing a member. I can see how it might read that way, but it wasn't what I was trying to do.


On topic, I am open to more days for more opportunity.
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