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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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CWD.... lift AR ?

Just got around to reading Tom Venesky's column in the PON, Mid-Jan issue. He suggests PA should follow suit of Missouri, and lift Antler Restrictions in our current CWD zones. Citing the fact that young male Deer are know to disperse quite far, looking for their own turf. I hadn't thought about it, but it does make sense ? So what say yinz ? Should PA lift AR in these CWD zones ? I say yes.

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 05:44 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

I wish the GC would do away with AR altogether, not just for CWD areas. just my opinion.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 05:58 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

I wish they would make it a equal statewide.Why should hunters in the western side of the state have to follow stricter AR? Where is the evidence that the antlers are bigger in those units? I pay the same for a license but have fewer bucks to legally harvest,that is not fair.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 09:37 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo
Just got around to reading Tom Venesky's column in the PON, Mid-Jan issue. He suggests PA should follow suit of Missouri, and lift Antler Restrictions in our current CWD zones. Citing the fact that young male Deer are know to disperse quite far, looking for their own turf. I hadn't thought about it, but it does make sense ? So what say yinz ? Should PA lift AR in these CWD zones ? I say yes.
Mr Venesky must not know very much about male deer dispersal. Young male deer often do disperse, but those deer disperse before they are carrying hard antlers. Eliminating AR would do nothing to end dispersal.

Shooting them as button bucks would impact dispersal.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 09:48 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

A couple of good articles on the deer blog on dispersal.

http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/proje...-for-directions

http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/p...spersal-really

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 09:59 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo
Just got around to reading Tom Venesky's column in the PON, Mid-Jan issue. He suggests PA should follow suit of Missouri, and lift Antler Restrictions in our current CWD zones. Citing the fact that young male Deer are know to disperse quite far, looking for their own turf. I hadn't thought about it, but it does make sense ? So what say yinz ? Should PA lift AR in these CWD zones ? I say yes.
Mr Venesky must not know very much about male deer dispersal. Young male deer often do disperse, but those deer disperse before they are carrying hard antlers. Eliminating AR would do nothing to end dispersal.

Shooting them as button bucks would impact dispersal.
A fair amount of females do as well.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
Young male deer often do disperse, but those deer disperse before they are carrying hard antlers. Eliminating AR would do nothing to end dispersal.
I don't buy that one bit. Buck of all caliber and size move often, very often. We've all seen the studies on how far a collared Buck will travel, miles and miles. We've also seen how long a Button Buck will hang on it's mommy's side... forever. We also know that an antlerless Deer is more "homey", and by proxy, that keeps here little button buck cherub "homey" also. Now, will a mature Buck most likely develop a "core area" ? Of course. But let's not get carried away.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 01:15 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo
I don't buy that one bit. Buck of all caliber and size move often, very often. We've all seen the studies on how far a collared Buck will travel, miles and miles. We've also seen how long a Button Buck will hang on it's mommy's side... forever. We also know that an antlerless Deer is more "homey", and by proxy, that keeps here little button buck cherub "homey" also. Now, will a mature Buck most likely develop a "core area" ? Of course. But let's not get carried away.
There is a distinct difference between "dispersal" and "travel". Young male deer often "disperse". Meaning the relocate their core area. Older male deer will travel at certain times of the year but their core area rarely changes. Most young male deer disperse before they are are carrying hard antler.

You characterized the article that no AR would allow young bucks to be killed before they "disperse".

BB do hang with mommy but only till the new fawns are born. There is a percentage of BB that do not disperse. The greater percentage does disperse before their first set of hard antlers.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
You characterized the article that no AR would allow young bucks to be killed before they "disperse".
Good Lord. Disperse, Travel, Skidaddle, "Get outta Dodge".... Call it what you want. Point of the matter is, and was in his article, young Buck, as you say "hard antler", will move out of areas that good ole Ma weened them in. You cited buttons as one's that will motor out. At Button stage, that Buck is LEAST likely to leave. And when your second crop of Deer are born, and as you say, the Buck will get movin' along (skidaddle), that Buck will be "hard antlered". Whether as a 1.5 Yo spike, "Y" buck, whatever ? Do you sometimes argue just for the sake of arguing ?

Quote:
Young male deer often do disperse, but those deer disperse before they are carrying hard antlers
In that quote, you are describing a button buck. Unless you don't realize that a Buck entering it's second year of life, will have "hard" antlers ? 1.5 years old

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 06:49 PM
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Re: CWD.... lift AR ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleroo
Point of the matter is, and was in his article, young Buck, as you say "hard antler", will move out of areas that good ole Ma weened them in.
Yes, they move, but before hard antler and legal for harvest.

Quote:
You cited buttons as one's that will motor out. At Button stage, that Buck is LEAST likely to leave. And when your second crop of Deer are born, and as you say, the Buck will get movin' along (skidaddle), that Buck will be "hard antlered".
Yes, they are very unlikely to leave until about 1 year old. They are not hard antlered till September and this movement occurs prior to seasons opening.

Quote:
Do you sometimes argue just for the sake of arguing ?
No. Maybe you see it as arguing. I see it as a discussion which I am trying to convey my disagreement with the author that eliminating AR will keep as many bucks from dispersing.

Quote:
In that quote, you are describing a button buck. Unless you don't realize that a Buck entering it's second year of life, will have "hard" antlers ? 1.5 years old
Our archery seasons begin when bucks are roughly 1.5 y/o. The point I am making is that many have already dispersed to new home ranges prior to that. Eliminating AR does not stop bucks from dispersing as dispersal occurs prior to these 1.5 y/o bucks being legal for harvest.

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