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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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expansion and penetration

Hi all,
I've been researching different bullets for deer.

And what I'm concerned about is not always having proper shot placement. A bullet that will bust through bone and still expand and penetrate. The cheaper bullets such as CL, PP, inerlokts, GK, Prohunters, bt's... will suffice for the prorper shot, but in an instant where that shot will not present itself, should be passed up. Although someday that Trophy or something real nice might prevent me from passing it up.

In the right circumstance any bullet will smash thru bone. There are alot of factors at play, a core loct may work perfect on a high shoulder shot 1 time and splash the next. I think the thing with premeuim bullets is there is more shot to shot consitency. I like to be able to pick my shots and put'em where it counts, but I also want a bullet that holds together. The sst, the nos bt, and sierra gmk, all fall into bullets that shoot well, but are more rapid expanding and less penetration, the mono metals are on the other end of the spectrum, definite penetration, but sometimes with minimal expansion. That (in my opinion) leaves the bonded bullets some where in the middle, as well as the nos PT and swift A-frame. This is where I tend to look for hunting bullets, Acccubonds ,Interbonds,TBBC, and the Nos PT. I like all of them.

Do some agree?

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 04:06 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

A good take on bullets and very true. I normally use normal cup and core bullets like Hornady or Sierra. I have some Nosler bt's I haven't used yet and also some WW and Rem factory loads. I think it is up to the individual shooter to choose as today's bullets are very good.

Welcome to the site and hope you post more of your thoughts.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 04:13 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

I agree if you're talking big game such as elk and moose, but deer aren't that hard to kill. I'd be willing to bet more deer are killed each year with power points and core lokts than any other bullets combined...EVER. They work, and work well for deer. I even shot clean through an elk front to back (that's over 5 feet of animal) with a 180 core lokt and got an exit. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree the SST and NBT's can be too explosive, especially at 50 yards in the average PA deer woods. But for long range work, I love them for whitetails. My long range whitetail load is a 180 nosler ballistic tip out of my 300 Win Mag. At long range, the expansion is more controlled and they are a SUPER accurate bullet.

The Interloks, Gamekings and Prohunters were THE premium bullets before bullets like the TSX and Accubonds came on the market. They all work great on deer. But in my opinion, partitions, solids and bonded bullets are WAY overkill on deer size critters.

Bottom line, any cup/core bullet in a caliber suited to deer hunting (in my opinion 243 on up) will kill a deer. Sure, proper shot placement is key, but they'll all drive through bone when needed. Angle the bullet through the vitals and you've got a dead deer at the end of a bloodtrail.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 04:51 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

While I think 'premium bullets' have their place I just don't think most of PA deer hunting is that place. At least for me it's not. All most all of my deer hunting is done at less than 50 yards. I've put deer down with all kinds of shots, through all kinds of angles and bones/tissues. I've done it with Core-lokts, Power Points, Interlocks, Partitions, SST's, Accubonds and hard cast lead too. To be honest, I can't justify the cost of a partition when an interlock will do the exact same thing just as well.

For instance, I hunt a lot of clearcuts....the shots are almost always under 50 yards and I make it my mission to put that deer down RIGHT THERE! It's no fun blood trailing in a dense clearcut! My 257 Roberts pushing a 117gr Hornady RN around 2800fps does this every time I pull the trigger. What do I need a NP for? Last years buck was shot from a treestand at about 40 yard through the high point of the near shoulder and the bullet pushed through high ribs/spine, lungs, low ribs then came to rest just under the skin behind the off shoulder. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 65-70% weight retention, a good mushroom, no fragmentation and it certainly did it's job. Most times it exits. Deer was DRT and I didn't have to do any brush busting to find him or get him out.

You really under estimated the ramifications of the boondoggle you have just perpetrated!
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 04:53 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

Oh, if you want to use a bonded bullet, but don't want the cost look into the Speer Deep Curl. I haven't tried them yet, but they seem to be an inexpensive bonded bullet with the deer hunter in mind.

You really under estimated the ramifications of the boondoggle you have just perpetrated!
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: expansion and penetration

I just got the Rifleman magazine in the mail today. February 1924 by Townsend Whelen "An analysis of game bullets"

I just give ya one quote... "Deer are easily killed animals"

and another..."Energy is very misleading as a measure of the killing qulaity of a bullet. Considered alone it is worthlessas such. It will therefore not be considered at all."

He also mentioned about velocities at 2300 - 2400 FPS.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 07:07 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

when you look at boolits, u need to also look at how fast your gonna push them. a bullet that gives you good expansion and penetration at modest velocity, may blow up at magnum velocity. and a bullet that performs well at magnum velocity may not at modest velocity.

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: expansion and penetration

well the load book gives you a window of FPS, right? So... they're saying the bullet's good to go... or the velocities are for accuracy? I think it's both.

Put it to you this way. The deer I shot last year with a Hornady 130 grain interlock at 3000 FPS wound channel was at entry didn't explode and left a 3-4 inch exit hole in the back strap.. the shot was up hill about 250 yards. The shot entered a little far back but still in the boiler room, and drove right through the spine...

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:24 PM
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Re: expansion and penetration

IMO premium bullets have a place in the huntint world. For either large or dangerous game. They also have a second purpose. And that is they allow a person to shoot a smaller cartridge and still have pretty good performance on deer.

For example. I do not care what bullet you use in a 30-06. You are going to have a dead deer. Heck I hunt with straight cast wheel weight, and dead deer everytime. Through bone or what ever.

But when shooting a 223 you might have a problem with a cheap bullet. But then you go to a premium bullet and that bullet allows you to use a less than desirable cartridge.

I do not shoot the premiums for deer simply because I like to shoot and practice alot with my rifles. And I like to practice with the load I hunt with. Shooting premium bullets would bankrupt me. And again for deer in my cartridge choices they simply are not necessary.

If I shot a diminuitive cartrdige and practiced very little then I woud probably shoot premium bullets. But that is the only way for deer.

Now bigger stuff, that is a different story. Tom.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 10:01 AM
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Re: expansion and penetration

YUKON375....A VERY GOOD POST!!!!!.....i have lately come to that EXACT!!..conclusion...in the past i would push a bullet as fast as i could and still get good accuracy...but i have come to the conclusion that with certain bullets speed is not a "GOOD" thing.. i hunt with the 25-06 quiet a bit and i have come to the conclusion that with most standard hunting bullets to much speed can give erratic bullet performance..comming apart one time, holding together the next. I am beginning to re-think some of my speed kills notions...good post
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