will different brass affect accuracy with the same loads - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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will different brass affect accuracy with the same loads

I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohunr View Post
I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.
The short answer is yes. Changing any component runs the risk of impacting accuracy or having any number of issues. As an example, I was using the same brand and powder for loads in my 300 win mag but the cans of powder were purchased a year apart and were from different lots. Well when I ran on of one can of powder and moved to the new can. There was enough difference that my load that did not have pressure problems was now pushing primers out of the cases. This was the same powder just a different lot. I needed to start over and work up a load for the new can of powder.

In you case changing the brand of brass will post likely require you to start over and work up a new load for that gun.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:44 PM
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Yes, it very well could.

Different brands, even different lots of the same brand, may vary for specific internal capacity and consistency from brass to brass. I'm not shocked the Rem brass is not the best for you. I've found the weight of their brass to vary more than most, which means the thickness varies and the internal capacity varies. Doesn't mean you can't get it to work, but it does mean it's different than other brands.

When going from one brand of brass to another, you very well could need to redevelop your load. That's not at all unexpected.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nomad_archer View Post
The short answer is yes. Changing any component runs the risk of impacting accuracy or having any number of issues. As an example, I was using the same brand and powder for loads in my 300 win mag but the cans of powder were purchased a year apart and were from different lots. Well when I ran on of one can of powder and moved to the new can. There was enough difference that my load that did not have pressure problems was now pushing primers out of the cases. This was the same powder just a different lot. I needed to start over and work up a load for the new can of powder.

In you case changing the brand of brass will post likely require you to start over and work up a new load for that gun.
This is why I went to flat spot load development (see my post on it). I had the same thing happen. Had a load go faster by over 100fps by simply changing cans of the same powder from one can to another.

The flat spot method has given me a way to establish a speed where I get the accuracy I want, and when I change powder lots, I just need to find where the speed is what it should be, and then I'm good to go.

This winter I am planning to start buying into 8lb jugs of the powders I will be using and working out of them to avoid this kinda thing. I anneal brass and push back my shoulders minimally, so brass lasts a long time (meaning I don't usually have to redevelop for new brass).
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:52 PM
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Different brass have different volumes, different volumes lead to different pressure, different pressure leads to different velocity, different velocity leads to different groups.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohunr View Post
I do not reload, a good friend of mine does. he loaded some super accurate 7mm-08 rounds for my son last year. i bought a bunch of brass off fellow members here. all of the rounds last year were remington brass. this year we shot winchester and remington brass. the winchester nickle plated brass are super accurate. the remington brass will not hold much of a group even at 100 yards. everything is the same except for the brass.

my question is: will the different brass cause this to happen ? he is out of town and i cant ask him.
A few points & questions:

1) You are talking all the other components are the same: Same powder & powder lot, same primer, same bullet?

2) Same exact dies, same exact setup?

3) Brass of the same cartridge from different manufacturers have different thicknesses. If one is allot thicker than the other, it will hold less powder. So, if you are loading very full or compressed loads, the thicker brass may end up having higher pressures. So to, the thicker brass will hold the bullet harder using the same loading dies set to exactly same settings. So that too may yield higher pressures.

4) You mentioned that you got the brass from different folks, therefor it was fired in different guns and you got that brass fire-sized to those guns chambers. Are you full length sizing or just neck sizing? IF it was not fired in your chamber the first time, when reloading you MUST full length size the brass. If your reloading your own brass for a quality bolt action, only then might you be able to get away with just neck sizing.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tdd View Post
This is why I went to flat spot load development (see my post on it). I had the same thing happen. Had a load go faster by over 100fps by simply changing cans of the same powder from one can to another.

The flat spot method has given me a way to establish a speed where I get the accuracy I want, and when I change powder lots, I just need to find where the speed is what it should be, and then I'm good to go.

This winter I am planning to start buying into 8lb jugs of the powders I will be using and working out of them to avoid this kinda thing. I anneal brass and push back my shoulders minimally, so brass lasts a long time (meaning I don't usually have to redevelop for new brass).
Interesting I will certainly check your post out. I dont shoot as much as I should and I neck resize as long as possible before doing a full length resize. My brass seems to last a long time. I really need to get a gun or two that is fun to shoot 100+ rounds out of at a time. 15 or so from my hunting rifle (300 mag) is enough for it to stop being fun and start costing me some money. 8lb just seems like a good plan as well. How did you find the flat spot method?
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:55 PM
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Reloading friends of mine read about it, tried it, suggested it to me.

I've run three rifles on it now and I've gotten submoa groups out of all three inside of 40 rounds down range from start to finished/zero'ed rifle.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs' Mountain View Post
A few points & questions:

1) You are talking all the other components are the same: Same powder & powder lot, same primer, same bullet?

2) Same exact dies, same exact setup?

3) Brass of the same cartridge from different manufacturers have different thicknesses. If one is allot thicker than the other, it will hold less powder. So, if you are loading very full or compressed loads, the thicker brass may end up having higher pressures. So to, the thicker brass will hold the bullet harder using the same loading dies set to exactly same settings. So that too may yield higher pressures.

4) You mentioned that you got the brass from different folks, therefor it was fired in different guns and you got that brass fire-sized to those guns chambers. Are you full length sizing or just neck sizing? IF it was not fired in your chamber the first time, when reloading you MUST full length size the brass. If your reloading your own brass for a quality bolt action, only then might you be able to get away with just neck sizing.
EVERYTHING is the same except for the brass. set-up, dies, powder (same can) bullets. when he sized the brass, he full sized the brass and cut to length if he had to. he even used a micrometer to make sure they were all the same size.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 06:37 PM
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As was mentioned, changing brass will generally change internal volume.

That changes pressure.

Pressure changes result in changes in velocity and barrel harmonics.

Changes in velocity and barrel harmonics = changes in accuracy/results on paper.
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