Isn't it odd, strange, interesting...... - The HuntingPA.com Outdoor Community
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

.....how some rifles turn in their best accuracy right at the bitter edge of maximum loads and others need to be backed down a bit to lay them in ??

I have a 7-STW, a 220 Swift and a 375 Weatherby that won't print bugholes til they are running all out. But there's a 308 Win and a 25-06 that like a little breathing room. Then there ade quite a few that really don't care what you feed them they shoot about anything.......

Kinda interesting..... to me anyways.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:23 AM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

Yes ! I often wondered if it is the make up of the bullets or the way the way the steel in the barrels react to pressure?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:44 AM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

Think how bored we reloaders would be if everything was so simple.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 07:59 AM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

"Maximum" loads in most manuals are conservative. Needed to protect the writers from lawsuits. The old rule of start low and work up still applies.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 09:33 AM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

I use manuals and the internet (mfg sites) as a starting point for load workup. Also, use a chrono when doing so.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 11:47 AM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

The bitter edge may or may not be the actual "bitter edge".

When I started using QuickLoad software, which uses the actual capacity of a case fired in THAT rifle, I had a real awakening. I have a 30-06 shooting at book max with a real slow 2700fps for a 165gr Partition. I was really disappointed in that speed, although accuracy is good, and honestly, I stayed with the load because if I want more oomph to a 30-cal, I use my 300WSM or 300H&H.

Anyway....

When I ran data into QuickLoad, including fired case capacity from that rifle, I found for that rifle/chamber, I'm not at max. Not even close to max. Speeds track to pressure and point to the load being well below red line for that rifle.

The rabbit hole goes deep.

Otherwise, I've been told (and seen it bear out) that particularly magnum rounds want that hotter charge to get uniform case obturation to the chamber and produce more consistent velocities from shot to shot. I have no flippin' clue if that is the actual reason, but I've seen in bigger capacity rounds that bigger charges tend to give more consistent speeds, for sure.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 12:03 PM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

I would imagine that empty space in the case would lead to more random ignition. A compressed load would seem to be the most consistent. But, at different burning rates, a fast powder could be at max without being full anda slow powder would not be at compressed. Further muddying the waters.

I have some old manuals and one is way hotter then anything available now. I think it's a Speer manual. It was a picture of the stage coach on it.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 12:21 PM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoolshooter
"Maximum" loads in most manuals are conservative. Needed to protect the writers from lawsuits. The old rule of start low and work up still applies.
I have manuals from the 1960's. Some of the loads in those manuals would make the lawyers cringe. But think about this, those loads were safe in older firearms then and they are probably still safe in our more modern firearms.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 12:25 PM
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd
The bitter edge may or may not be the actual "bitter edge".

When I started using QuickLoad software, which uses the actual capacity of a case fired in THAT rifle, I had a real awakening. I have a 30-06 shooting at book max with a real slow 2700fps for a 165gr Partition. I was really disappointed in that speed, although accuracy is good, and honestly, I stayed with the load because if I want more oomph to a 30-cal, I use my 300WSM or 300H&H.

Anyway....

When I ran data into QuickLoad, including fired case capacity from that rifle, I found for that rifle/chamber, I'm not at max. Not even close to max. Speeds track to pressure and point to the load being well below red line for that rifle.
The Powley Computer which was a slide rule type device based its load recommendations on case capacity.

I have not used mine lately but it was accurate.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Isn't it odd, strange, interesting......

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdd
The bitter edge may or may not be the actual "bitter edge".
I hear what you're saying.

But in one instance, I'm using Layne Simpson data for my 7-STW...... THAT is the bitter edge.

In another case, I'm actually using an older book max load in a .220 Swift and getting eye popping velocities. That one may or may not be bitter edge.

demokraten saugen
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