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#2861990 - Thu Nov 22 2012 11:48 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: jpsmith1]
muskyman62 Offline
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Registered: Mon May 14 2012
Posts: 1276
Loc: Western PA
I worked on a psychiatric floor as a medical professional and can tell you a genuine deserving 302 should not be in possession of a firearm. they almost always have a few bolts loose. if a person gets 302d that doesn't deserve it they will almost always reduce it to a 201 for good behavior(seeking out care voluntarily). if you get a 302 and give them a reason to petition the courts for a 303 you probably should never own a weapon because more than likely you will require medication to function normally in society. work in a psychiatric unit and all tell me about the 2nd amendment later.
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#2861991 - Thu Nov 22 2012 11:52 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: buckhunter]
muskyman62 Offline
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Registered: Mon May 14 2012
Posts: 1276
Loc: Western PA
Originally Posted By: buckhunter
It would seem that way, but they usually won't 302 a person unless that person wants to harm themselves or others. I can't tell you how many times I've had a mental health delegate release a person because they ask them do you want to hurt yourself or others and the person says nope so they are released. Getting 302'd [censored] and the loss of gun ownership would suck, I'm all for gun ownership but there are one or two things that are more important like a persons life. To the O.P. talk to a lawyer and see what they say if as a family member they can be given to you or his family to safeguard. Good luck and God Bless.


if I met you for the first time tomorrow I can have you 302d and there isn't a thing you could do about it. you'd be in for evaluation right away if I simply told them you threatened to kill yourself or me for that matter. people punish other family members like that all the time or people they don't like but once in a while a 302 comes in because someone is tired of being watched on cameras in space and feels violated. lol
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#2862075 - Fri Nov 23 2012 07:21 AM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: muskyman62]
yukon375 Offline
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Registered: Sun Aug 15 2010
Posts: 638
Loc: vertigo
thats sort of the point, once 302ed you lose your right to own a gun, whether your found normal and not a danger to society or not. anyone can be 302ed at any time for any reason. dident someone once say something about giving up liberty for safety, or something to that effect once? if he was still alive, he'd prob. be 302ed for saying that.
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#2862094 - Fri Nov 23 2012 07:48 AM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: muskyman62]
jpsmith1 Offline
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Registered: Sun Nov 26 2006
Posts: 667
Loc: New Castle, PA
Originally Posted By: muskyman62
I worked on a psychiatric floor as a medical professional and can tell you a genuine deserving 302 should not be in possession of a firearm. they almost always have a few bolts loose. if a person gets 302d that doesn't deserve it they will almost always reduce it to a 301 for good behavior. if you get a 302 and give them a reason to petition the courts for a 303 you probably should never own a weapon because more than likely you will require medication to function normally in society. work in a psychiatric unit and all tell me about the 2nd amendment later.


How difficult is this to do?

Would it require a lawyer?

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#2862363 - Fri Nov 23 2012 12:17 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: yukon375]
muskyman62 Offline
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Registered: Mon May 14 2012
Posts: 1276
Loc: Western PA
well, the thing is just being brought in on a 302 does not mean you are 302'd. if you are deserving then yes the 302 will usually be upheld. people get 302'd all the time for being incredibly drunk and threatening to beat the crap out of someone or hurt themselves, they get sent to the hospital for blood work and psych evaluation. the evaluation will usually tell them if the 302 should be upheld. a lot of times they will reduce the 302 to a 201(voluntary commitment) if the patient agrees to be evaluated voluntarily. if they find that the person needs further evaluation they will petition the courts for a 302 which can keep them there for 120 hours. if the need held beyond that the are petitioned for a 303 which can last 20 days. then 304 up to 90 days and finally a 305 for 180 days and the can keep on petitioning over and over again if they feel to are not fit to be released.


so basically just having someone 302 you does not make it illegal to have firearms. if the 302 is upheld you are out of luck. if it is reduced to a 201 no record of a 302 will be found anywhere on that persons record.
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#2862370 - Fri Nov 23 2012 12:29 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: jpsmith1]
muskyman62 Offline
veteran

Registered: Mon May 14 2012
Posts: 1276
Loc: Western PA
Originally Posted By: jpsmith1
Originally Posted By: muskyman62
I worked on a psychiatric floor as a medical professional and can tell you a genuine deserving 302 should not be in possession of a firearm. they almost always have a few bolts loose. if a person gets 302d that doesn't deserve it they will almost always reduce it to a 301 for good behavior. if you get a 302 and give them a reason to petition the courts for a 303 you probably should never own a weapon because more than likely you will require medication to function normally in society. work in a psychiatric unit and all tell me about the 2nd amendment later.


How difficult is this to do?

Would it require a lawyer?



doesn't require a lawyer but yes you can have a lawyer present. there are actually non lawyers out there who's job is to specifically represent people in these situations.

like I said if a 302 is upheld it's almost always deserving. sometimes people just need to calm down and assess the situation and go through the motions or they will really be sorry if they aren't deserving of the 302 but just lost their temper.
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#2862484 - Fri Nov 23 2012 02:40 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: muskyman62]
buckhunter Online   content
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Tue Dec 26 2006
Posts: 3501
Loc: grove city
Originally Posted By: muskyman62
Originally Posted By: jpsmith1
Originally Posted By: muskyman62
I worked on a psychiatric floor as a medical professional and can tell you a genuine deserving 302 should not be in possession of a firearm. they almost always have a few bolts loose. if a person gets 302d that doesn't deserve it they will almost always reduce it to a 301 for good behavior. if you get a 302 and give them a reason to petition the courts for a 303 you probably should never own a weapon because more than likely you will require medication to function normally in society. work in a psychiatric unit and all tell me about the 2nd amendment later.


How difficult is this to do?

Would it require a lawyer?



doesn't require a lawyer but yes you can have a lawyer present. there are actually non lawyers out there who's job is to specifically represent people in these situations.

like I said if a 302 is upheld it's almost always deserving. sometimes people just need to calm down and assess the situation and go through the motions or they will really be sorry if they aren't deserving of the 302 but just lost their temper.


This is what my earlier post was referring to. I see them in the ICU when they are still intoxicated, high, or incapacitated from the meds taken. Its our job to detox them till their stable enough to be evaluated as to whether or not to maintain the 302 and have them committed. what I was trying to say in my previous post is its pretty hard to actually be 302'd and sent to a psychiatric rehab from our facility if there isn't a very valid reason. One of the key phrases I've hear mental health delegates state over and over again is "they are stating they don't want to hurt themselves or anyone else and this whole thing was an accident, therefore I can't commit them as it would violate their rights." So at least in my experience if they actually get 302'd (its upheld) theres usually a pretty darn good reason. JMHO.


Edited by buckhunter (Fri Nov 23 2012 02:42 PM)
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#2862967 - Fri Nov 23 2012 10:22 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: jpsmith1]
zimmerstutzen Offline
The man

Registered: Fri Oct 19 2001
Posts: 9637
Loc: lancaster
A person who is not permitted to have firearms, is given a reasonable SHORT time to sell or transfer the weapons to others under Chapter 51 of the crimes code.

I have seen too many cases in which wives will goad a husband into making angry statements and then having the police haul the poor guy in for an evaluation. If there is a 302, the county mental health folks are supposed to have paper work filled out and signed by a physician. Just trying to find out if the proper form was completed and signed is often a major problem to find out.

There is a procedure under the state law to ask a court to restore rights to possess firearms, but the chances of getting rights restored after a 302 are obviously slim. I have seen where a convicted felon was restored after 20 years and a history of substantial and outstanding community volunteer work.


Edited by zimmerstutzen (Fri Nov 23 2012 10:23 PM)

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#2863331 - Sat Nov 24 2012 12:10 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: jpsmith1]
mightyjoeyoung Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2011
Posts: 2992
Loc: North West, PA
I am a nurse at a mental health residential treatment facility and have been forced to call crisis sercvices on MANY occasions because a resident was becomming a threat to himself or others, and was unable to de-escillate with staff help or their current medication regimen. While I trully believe and stand behind our second ammendment rights and would hate to see ANY honest citizen loose their right to bear arms, if this is a valid 302, meaning your nephew trully did try to harm himself or others, then he really shouldn't be near any firearms ever again. Once a person ahs taken things to the point of not only desiring to harm themselves to a degree where they know they will/could die, a line needs to be drawn to not only protect themselves, but others around them should they relapse into that mode of thinking after being stabilized at an intensive psychiatric unit. It is also actually alot harder to have someone involuntarilly committed than you might think and crisis services will usually do a fair job of determining whether or not you are a true risk of self-harm or not. There are of course exceptions to this rule though! My ex had a brother that WAS 302'd on a Thursday and was released on Monday morning, DESPITE his statements that he WOULD harm himself if released. His poor wife and kids came home that afternnon to find him dead in the living room-his head blown apart with his own .44 magnum. Once someone goes down that very dark road it is near impossible to come back from it and it is our responsibilty to ensure their and our safety. I would of course try to keep his guns in the family if you can as well. It should not be difficult to have the dispositioned to a family member(s) with clean records.
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#2866988 - Tue Nov 27 2012 09:44 PM Re: 302'd (involuntary commission) and owning a gun? [Re: jpsmith1]
NaturalBornKillR Offline
On the board

Registered: Mon Nov 02 2009
Posts: 238
Loc: Erie, PA
Exactly why Crisis will have a patient sign a saftey contract. It is actaully very easy to get someone 302'd imo, I 302 people almost everyday. If the words or words pertaining to wanting to harm yourself or others or if someone presents with the inability to care for themselves due to a MH problem, your getting 302'd. The mental health delgates are pretty lenient.
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