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#2553099 - Tue Jan 24 2012 07:50 PM Food plots illegal
HammerDown15 Online   crying
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Sun Sep 28 2008
Posts: 2613
Loc: State College
Just curious if anyone else saw in the new field and stream they were predicting that wildlife agencies were going to start considering foodplots baiting in the future. Thought it was interesting they would say that but don't see it happening. I think page 30 off the top of my head, if you can't find it let me know and i will get the correct page.
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#2553854 - Wed Jan 25 2012 09:11 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
bearslayer Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Aug 26 2008
Posts: 971
Loc: Lititz, Pa
I think that would be a great idea! Instead of deer hunting the hunter it would be the hunter accually hunting the deer again! jmo
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#2554236 - Wed Jan 25 2012 01:35 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: bearslayer]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
Chad, come hunt my food plots. You'll see how easy it is. LOL

I won't hunt them, waste of time. The trail cameras don't lie, all night use, no daytime use.
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"It only takes one person to care in order to get something changed." Bryan S.

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#2554837 - Wed Jan 25 2012 07:52 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
stackbarrel Offline
HPA NE rep
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Fri Apr 04 2008
Posts: 2726
Loc: NE PA/3C
Never happen. Too much $$ going into hunting via food plots, equipment, fencing, property management, etc. Same for hunting near oak, beech, chestnut stands or soft mast trees/bushes, those would need to be illegal hunt sites too. That would be like saying we will all have to hunt with iron sighted slug guns or stick bows just to make it more fair.
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#2554917 - Wed Jan 25 2012 08:21 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: stackbarrel]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Here is one reason not to make that mistake...this is April I was not hunting that day.



Only those that just hunt deer see food plots as bait, those that tend to deer's needs all year (including SGL/SF food and cover guys) know that is not true. Not many wasting money on "bait" in April now is there??? Don't answer, it is already known.

Field and Stream they still print that thing??




Edited by RB-HPA (Thu Jan 26 2012 08:28 AM)
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#2555336 - Wed Jan 25 2012 11:48 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HammerDown15 Online   crying
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Sun Sep 28 2008
Posts: 2613
Loc: State College
it was outdoor life sorry. Just thought it was curious they would write that.
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#2555423 - Thu Jan 26 2012 06:44 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
I don't get that one either, but my guess is like many posts on here and on other MBs is that they wrote it cause they knew it would heat up some and maybe get the magazine some attention.

This is just my .02 on them from what i have seen and not directed at anyone..but anyone that argues foodplots are just bait and not year long habitat improvements, have not watched one provide all year, or seen the difference in deer that have them in their life and deer that don't. Even my hammered little plots that came from me just wanting something else in that little opening other than goldenrod or piled old logs have made a difference along with everything else I have done. They are visited all year long and a part of a whole plan I follow. Deer, turkeys, bears, drummers and even fat groundhogs and rabbits have taken notice. Have they helped my property become a wildlife magnet, yes, along with my sanctuary area, timber and hinge cuttings, and removal of excess animals (which use to be are only job).

State agencies wanted us to become more than just hunters of wildlife, well we have and I hope they don't cave to the ignorance of statements like..."it is just bait", no matter what magazine it is in. They know it is not.

ALso to keep this oriented to the forum it is in, QDMA gave me (and many others) the training on all of this stuff, thru their magazine, materials and website and of course I got alot of help from many here on HPA. I see the QDMA organization as the one group that turns deer hunters into more than just deer hunters...and I am a darn proud member of that. thumbs









_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2555947 - Thu Jan 26 2012 01:55 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: RB-HPA]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
QDMA turns deer hunters into land and wildlife stewards.

There is a huge mindset change in a hunter when he goes from "consumer" to steward.
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#2556673 - Thu Jan 26 2012 09:07 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HomeintheWoods Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Sat Apr 02 2005
Posts: 2222
Loc: Northern PA
I don't even hunt anymore, but I still manage my land for the benefit of wildlife. QDMA is a wealth of information in hempling me manage habitat more effectively. Like RB says, foodplots are used by many forms of wildlife, all year long. It's been my observation that most people who complain about foodplots don't have land. Some don't even acknowledge that the PGC plants them on gamelands. I think ignorance and envy are a very bad combination.
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#2557017 - Fri Jan 27 2012 08:04 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Guest3 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007
Posts: 21381
Loc: 2A, 2B
QDMA has planted foodplots on game lands and on state forest lands as well.

Right now, we're working on some habitat improvements and food plots for the public land hunter on the KQDC. We hope it will involve the hunters that hunt there.

Stay tuned!
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#2557023 - Fri Jan 27 2012 08:11 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
bushmaster Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 05 2009
Posts: 2561
Loc: Aliquippa, PA
Foodplots are a good thing! Here's a pic of a 2 acres clover plot I put in a few years ago. The deer are in it every night. Nothing wrong with Habitat Improvement.

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#2557024 - Fri Jan 27 2012 08:13 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
bushmaster Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Thu Feb 05 2009
Posts: 2561
Loc: Aliquippa, PA
That was the wrong pic this a different plot with rye in it.
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#2557031 - Fri Jan 27 2012 08:19 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
bushmaster Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 05 2009
Posts: 2561
Loc: Aliquippa, PA
Here's the pic. I put this plot in a couple seasons after the property was logged. It's on a hill top.

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I see said the Blind Carpenter to his Deaf Helper as he picked up his Hammer and Saw!

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#2558313 - Sat Jan 28 2012 07:58 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: bushmaster]
threeinchmag Offline
The man

Registered: Sun Feb 17 2002
Posts: 9012
Loc: mtjoy
Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.
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#2558712 - Sat Jan 28 2012 04:40 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: threeinchmag]
TusseyMtMan Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Tue Feb 15 2005
Posts: 4221
Loc: Centre County
Stupid article.
There are thousands of food plots on sgl's around the state and also on sf land in the elk range. Who would believe the PGC would make foodplots(or hunting around them) illegal, when they PROMOTE them? Other states are the same.
Just dumb and why I don't read those magazines. Not, slamming the guy who posted it on here. But, the author and editor of the mag had a stupid moment.
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#2559282 - Sun Jan 29 2012 04:04 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
OK, so who is behind this cart?
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#2565143 - Thu Feb 02 2012 12:21 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: threeinchmag]
JerrySS Offline
old hand

Registered: Sun Apr 05 2009
Posts: 766
Loc: Grove City PA
Originally Posted By: threeinchmag
Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.


Intent is where the baiting line is drawn. The orchard or small crop field was not installed to kill a deer.

Habitat improvement is an honorable reason for installing food plots, and I thank you for improving our wildlife resources.

Unfortunately, a large number of food plots are installed for the sole purpose of killing deer. You are baiting if you hunt from a tree house overlooking your little food plot in the woods. I am not saying this should be illegal, just that the intention is the same as dumping a pile of corn in the woods. Maybe all baiting should be legal so no lines need to be drawn.

Jerry

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#2565172 - Thu Feb 02 2012 03:01 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Swift]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
Originally Posted By: Swift
OK, so who is behind this cart?


confused
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#2565351 - Thu Feb 02 2012 08:41 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: JerrySS]
Guest3 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007
Posts: 21381
Loc: 2A, 2B
Originally Posted By: JerrySS
Originally Posted By: threeinchmag
Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.


Intent is where the baiting line is drawn. The orchard or small crop field was not installed to kill a deer.

Habitat improvement is an honorable reason for installing food plots, and I thank you for improving our wildlife resources.

Unfortunately, a large number of food plots are installed for the sole purpose of killing deer. You are baiting if you hunt from a tree house overlooking your little food plot in the woods. I am not saying this should be illegal, just that the intention is the same as dumping a pile of corn in the woods. Maybe all baiting should be legal so no lines need to be drawn.

Jerry


Not to be smart; but have you ever tried to hunt a food plot? Usually they are in an open space, so if you hunt the fringe of that, you are easily spotted. First inkling that a human is there, the deer are noctournal- good luck getting them after that!

ONE, one acre food plot produces about 6000 pounds (or more) of vegetation. That takes pressure off of countless acres of woodland. Research how much browse is created per year in a mature woodland.

In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters. They are exceptionally difficult to hunt.
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#2566261 - Thu Feb 02 2012 08:12 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest3]
JerrySS Offline
old hand

Registered: Sun Apr 05 2009
Posts: 766
Loc: Grove City PA
Quote:
In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters.

I agree completely. All I am saying is often that is not the reason food plots were installed.

The typical Pennsylvania scenario
A serious whitetail hunter spends $50,000 - $200,000 for some acreage. Next he posts the land and spends more money and effort putting in food plots. I may be cynical but I cannot believe this amount of money and effort was done for the benefit of the wildlife. This was done solely for him and his family to have the best opportunity to harvest deer.

Quote:
They (food plots) are exceptionally difficult to hunt.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. In the above scenario the land has been posted and sees almost no hunting pressure. Under these conditions the deer behavior will change and become less spooky. Even though I hate watching them, the typical hunting show on TV is staged over an undisturbed food plot with a large number of deer coming to feed in the evening.

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#2566267 - Thu Feb 02 2012 08:18 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
archerydude21 Offline
old hand

Registered: Fri Dec 19 2008
Posts: 771
Loc: NW PA
I think the PGC should make it mandatory that all green areas be removed from the state at least 30 days prior to hunting season. Also, no hunting over water sources. Poor thirsty deer trying to get a drink and some hunter is there using a water source like bait.

Obviously this is tongue in cheek. People who criticize food plots are just upset they don't have one to utilize.

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#2566773 - Fri Feb 03 2012 08:46 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: JerrySS]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Originally Posted By: JerrySS
[quote] In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters.I agree completely. All I am saying is often that is not the reason food plots were installed.

The typical Pennsylvania scenario
A serious whitetail hunter spends $50,000 - $200,000 for some acreage. Next he posts the land and spends more money and effort putting in food plots. I may be cynical but I cannot believe this amount of money and effort was done for the benefit of the wildlife. This was done solely for him and his family to have the best opportunity to harvest deer.



I agree with Jerry , except where he says "solely", that is essentially what i did and it was the best move I ever made. Well we bought the land to build a house in the woods with a big backyard with sticks to feed a planned outdoor wood bolier (self sufficency)...but as those house plans slowed down and the land started to show its potential as a wildlife hotpsot, I focused on that part instead of making "habitat" for my family, it was a lightbulb moment for me on how much owning land changes your hunting life.

I have never been one to rely on government or its agencies that much anyway, and I guess that philosohpy finally carried over to my hunting. Public Land has a million strings attached to it and doing habitat improvements for a specific animal has another million strings attached to it to make sure it fits within a larger plan....I know I have done them and set them up. I will stop VERY well short of saying the DCNR and PGC are not doing all they can with what they have , they are, but in the same breath i am not getting any hunting seasons over at the end to do again if I was dissatisfied with it or the pace of it so if I can create better ones for my gang I will within the law. They have to keep everyone from birdwatchers, to hunters, to treehuggers happy with their land and that makes slow to move furstrating policy for many hunters...Me, I just got to keep the critters and my family happy so far , so very very good.

I bought my 54 acres of timbered land for the price of a decked out SUV..18 deer harvests for the family in 5 years, both my son's first deer killed there, my biggest buck ever, + a huge jump in my wife's deer harvest stats, then add a bear this year , and tons of wildlife sightings of all kinds and memories all year long, and hopefully soon a spring bird to complete the 2011-12 triple trophy all right there in its borders..heck ya!!! I am planting food plots to keep animals around to improve our hunting + doing all the other things to the woods I would have on a never tended to wish list for the public grounds I do hunt. No apologies here, no hiding it, i sing the praises of it and I really did not need a decked out SUV anyway, hunting is much more important to my life... and it would be silly to get land that cost that much and have it mirror the 100s of thousands public acres of land that surround me here, I want it better, much better. Public land which I could hunt for the price of a hunting license and just use it and forget it.A cost I likely incur in just a few hours of one of my "habitat days" up on the hill...or in a couple days worth of my loan monthly payment. I agree with Jerry, a big purpose is o kill deer and make memories... I just never realized how many others things benefit from it now and in Novemeber.

Now to be fair about this "nothing but for killing" statement made,the first and only ones to ever kill a deer standing in my plots so far happened last year, twice , from the same stand, a week apart, both kids' very first deer, in one of my best laid stand placement plans ever , designed strcitly for that purpose. So, 2 to 16 is the score there on plots to non-plot kills, hunting the terrain change funnel and sanctuary borders (something else i wish public land could offer to critters) has been 8 times more productive, I admit plots do influence the predicitablity of travel but not as much as wind, terrain, hunting pressure, other available foods, and time of day.

It is a tool, but not the whole toolbox. I will offer tours of my tool box anytime to anyone, and you will see it is not just a foodplot with a treestand overlooking it, surrounded by whatever else... each acre has a purpose to make my hunting better, some of it sees me there every time up, some has not seen me in 4 years.

Serious deer hunter is a compliment I do enjoy getting, becasue I never have been more in tune with the deer i hunt , but wildlife steward is the goal of the plan..just consider the manicured habitat for wildlife on my land, my shiny rims , leather seats and headrest DVD player..except I won't be trading it in after 5 years to get the bulit in screen dash GPS and it parks itself option. wink Bottom line of that is it is in the reach of many and I encourage as many as I can to make the move.
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2567880 - Fri Feb 03 2012 10:20 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: RB-HPA]
JerrySS Offline
old hand

Registered: Sun Apr 05 2009
Posts: 766
Loc: Grove City PA
RB,

OK, "solely" was a bit strong. How about "mainly"?

I appreciate your honesty in your explanation of your land improvements and reasons for doing them. I am jealous. I would love to have the opportunity to do the same, but the price tag is too steep for me at this stage in my life.

Some may take my earlier posts as criticism, but I was just trying to show how some food plots could be construed as a form of baiting. Again I am not being critical, just objective.

Regarding the "serious deer hunter" label. After reading many of your posts, I believe you are beyond the serious status, maybe fanatical. grin

Jerry


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#2567946 - Sat Feb 04 2012 12:11 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: JerrySS]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
"Largely" maybe at first, but the cool thing you see is the use it gets all year long, i mean tonight, right now I can't hunt but I likely had a deer in there nipping on whatever he could find today, here in the dead of winter...trail cams will tell the tale come Sunday...it gets to where you don;t want to let them down, after all they seldom let me down. i don't want to toss em a sack of ear corn, but give em some nice high protein greens they been eating since summer. Something i did in June and have not done anything with since. Bait? Not sure i know any bait piles not tended to since June that are doing anything for anyone tonight.

Fanatic...well thanks thumbs, hunting is my religion, my God knows it, my wife knows it, my kids know it. my priest knows it. Sometimes other "parishiners" or "tone of a sermon" can mess with what you really believe...if that happens build your own church, but that ain't no time to quit praying..in the middle of a food plot you can see the sky pretty good, throw in some colored leaves and there is your stained glass.

Jerry i truly wish every hunter that just had the desire could get some land, can you imagine how much better things would be for critters ??? We are humans, we have a hard time doing stuff if we get no reward from it, the benefit of increased harvest has done more for conservation all over this land than anything else that has been tried...I am certainly not going to keep my 54 acres exempt from that formula. Not sure where you live, but I am also sportsmen enough to say if you ever want to sit in one of the stands up there, let me know, I'll trade deer kills for good friendships 24/7/365, I am darn proud of what i do there, and handshakes are all part of that. wink
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2568299 - Sat Feb 04 2012 12:26 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: RB-HPA]
JerrySS Offline
old hand

Registered: Sun Apr 05 2009
Posts: 766
Loc: Grove City PA
Thanks for the generous invitation. I might have taken you up on your offer if my 13 year old son had the hunting bug. He gave it a try (I think for my sake) but it just wasn't there. I am still searching for the perfect hobby we can both enjoy, but there are many generational obstacles.

Quote:
i truly wish every hunter that just had the desire could get some land, can you imagine how much better things would be for critters ???

Unfortunately there is not enough land to divide among everyone who shares your passion. I admit, on other threads I have been critical of hunters buying or leasing land and posting it for their personal use. My view is biased since I have lost many favorite haunts due to these actions. I completely understand their objectives for posting but it still troubles me regarding the future of hunting. If I was fortunate enough to obtain some acreage I would struggle on which path to take.

You stated once that you foresee the PGC catering more to the serious hunter in the future. Times have changed from my youth and it seems our society will also progressively lean toward a minority group of hunters. There are no easy answers.

Jerry

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#2568955 - Sat Feb 04 2012 08:23 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: JerrySS]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Jerry, I am worried about the future of hunting myself...heck i worry about the future of anything anymore. It gets so that you can't get motivated to save the world, just make yours better. Warren county is huge with leases, many of my old grouse haunts posted up and it is one reason i quite grousing about.

I hope you and your son do find that connective hobby..if it does ever include trying the hunting one more time. Bring him up late October or early November and we will let the bucks do their best to set a hook.

On my PGC comment, yes I do believe eventually as ranks fall, the guy that CANNOT live without hunting will have more tags, longer seasons. Deer management with a million hunters on a million deer is one thing...whats coming will be another. Good stuff, enjoyed the chat. thumbs
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2579320 - Sun Feb 12 2012 04:10 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
wv windy ridge Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Dec 04 2007
Posts: 761
Loc: Westmorland County, PA living ...
Rooster, I completely agree with your take on the future of hunting. All states I think will face the same dilema.
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#2579327 - Sun Feb 12 2012 04:16 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
wv windy ridge Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Dec 04 2007
Posts: 761
Loc: Westmorland County, PA living ...
Food plots are of great nutritional bennifit. Where they are will determine success if one chooses to hunt them. I have some that I will shoot deer out of and some that I will not. I have no problem with someone investing sweat equity in their land, they pay the taxes, they maintain the property, the purchased that property. Provided they work within the laws..they should be able do with it as they please. I wish I had more time and more money to invest in ours. When you see deer, turkey and bear foraging for hours that is as rewarding as it gets. I have sat in stand all day during a hunting season and never pulled the trigger. That was the most rewarding and rememberable day as I have ever had. Lets just say its a passion I have for the outdoors. What ever I can do to help I will. If it can bennifit me great if it does not thats fine too.
_________________________
Harvesting imature game removes future trophies. Patience is rewarded.

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#2580141 - Mon Feb 13 2012 10:16 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Guest3 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007
Posts: 21381
Loc: 2A, 2B
A one acre food plot can grow 6K pounds of vegetation, taking pressure off of young trees in nearby woods. Anyone have an idea how much vegetation grows per acre in a mature woods?
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The man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic. ~Roosevelt

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#2580614 - Mon Feb 13 2012 04:42 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
wv windy ridge Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Dec 04 2007
Posts: 761
Loc: Westmorland County, PA living ...
Gal, I'll go out on a limb and say none LOL.
_________________________
Harvesting imature game removes future trophies. Patience is rewarded.

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#2581398 - Tue Feb 14 2012 07:46 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Guest3 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007
Posts: 21381
Loc: 2A, 2B
Close, lol. 30 to 50 pounds. What I like about food plots is they take pressure off of the woods and allow them to get a jump start. Otherwise, as few as 4 deer can keep mature forest from growing anything. Its just sometimes impossible to get deer numbers low enough to get any kind of regeneration.

Forests where the canopy is opened somewhat get more sunlight and can produce more new stems. Thats a good thing.
_________________________
The man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic. ~Roosevelt

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#2582660 - Wed Feb 15 2012 01:59 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
How did critters survive before land/critter management. confused
_________________________
Another day in paradise. God hunts on Sundays.

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#2582816 - Wed Feb 15 2012 08:42 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Swift]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
Originally Posted By: Swift
How did critters survive before land/critter management. confused


The eco system was kept in balance by predators and native Americans.
_________________________


"It only takes one person to care in order to get something changed." Bryan S.

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#2582974 - Wed Feb 15 2012 11:05 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Swift]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Originally Posted By: Swift
How did critters survive before land/critter management. confused


That is easy, the animal #'s did not have to keep hunters, or other groups of interested parties happy/unhappy within a certain boundry. If the food was gone, the herd moved and hunters moved with it, those that did not want the critters anymore rejoiced they were gone. Can't do that now... well the animals can, it is just tough for us humans as we tend to plant roots pretty deep when we set up shop (no pun intended).

Now we need to keep them balanced not only within the manmade state borders, but within certain areas in those borders, where folks have both investments in hunting such critters (such as camps and equipment) and others have investments to profit from things deer eat (such as timber, prize roses or cash crop)

The animals certainly did not get more complicated, they still don't know what state they are in or what lobby to support, they just want to eat, hide and make more critter, but us humans with our borders, investments, need for concrete places and recreational/profit demands kind of screwed all that up. We created the problems that we now need to manage , not the critters. Be thankful though because managed hunting is the proven solution to many of the problems our fellow man created. "Wildlife" management is really how to manage an animal to fit in with our world , not how to make us fit into their's.

I welcome all critters to my little place, as i got booted from the woods myself as a child by concrete creep. The hill will always be theirs over ours, we got enough human habitat in this world I think. However , I am also human enough to know I got to step in to keep them stable and healthy cause I ain't moving after them, after all I got my roots planted.
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

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#2585372 - Thu Feb 16 2012 09:19 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: archerydude21]
stackbarrel Offline
HPA NE rep
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Fri Apr 04 2008
Posts: 2726
Loc: NE PA/3C
Originally Posted By: archerydude21
I think the PGC should make it mandatory that all green areas be removed from the state at least 30 days prior to hunting season. Also, no hunting over water sources. Poor thirsty deer trying to get a drink and some hunter is there using a water source like bait.

Obviously this is tongue in cheek. People who criticize food plots are just upset they don't have one to utilize.


+1!! thumbs
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#2587501 - Sat Feb 18 2012 11:04 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest3]
Clinton County Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Fri Dec 23 2005
Posts: 1655
Loc: Clinton County
Originally Posted By: GalThatFishes
A one acre food plot can grow 6K pounds of vegetation, taking pressure off of young trees in nearby woods. Anyone have an idea how much vegetation grows per acre in a mature woods?


Yes but the deer that come to those plots don't just focus on the plot they are still going to browse so actually attracting more deer with a plot is not going to help the woods much unless the whole area is rich in food and the deer are not drawn in large numbers to the plot.

I wish we had cleared and planted areas in all state gamelands and forests. No way against them just saying. I think the above statement is the reason you don't see more food plots on state land. The only actual food plots I know of are in areas that are mostly brush and not many trees in the first place. Probably be proven wrong on that but the only ones I have ever seen were around brushy areas. Have seen some in the the mountains and they were really poor food plots that I doubt was very beneficial for the deer population.


Edited by huntsmenbob (Sat Feb 18 2012 11:08 PM)
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#2620418 - Sun Mar 18 2012 07:59 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
TwoSnakes Offline
journeyman

Registered: Wed Jun 10 2009
Posts: 56
Loc: Luzerne Co.
The north Mountain Branch of QDMA planted 18 acres of food plots on state game lands last year. This year should be no different.
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#2620440 - Sun Mar 18 2012 08:40 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Guest3 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007
Posts: 21381
Loc: 2A, 2B
thumbs Nice job guys!
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#2621513 - Mon Mar 19 2012 12:19 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: TwoSnakes]
stackbarrel Offline
HPA NE rep
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Fri Apr 04 2008
Posts: 2726
Loc: NE PA/3C
Yup, our Susquehanna branch plants them on our SGL's too. PGC can't afford to do it. Same with daylighting fruit trees, planting chestnut trees, TSI and hinge-cutting, etc. You know what Editor, too bad the "unified" crowd spends their time and $$ on lawyers, which does nothing for the resource, while our organization actually puts our feet on the ground and makes a difference!! Keep fighting the fight!!
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#2679870 - Wed May 23 2012 11:13 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
wyomingcounty Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Thu Sep 30 2010
Posts: 2002
Loc: wyoming county - 3C
Improving land to encourage deer is not baiting. What a terrible debate. That's like saying if you put in a pond you are doing so so you can kill geese or ducks. I guess if I killed myself and let my land grow up to weeds and saplings I would be doing the deer a service and not "cheating" when it comes to hunting. Liberalism stinks. Get over yourselves folks. Poachers don't do food plots. They road hunt. Road hunting is CHEAP compared to what I spend on improving my land for deer, that's for nursing does, and for anything else that wants to eat it. You can do this debate all you want, I enjoy farming for deer. You do what you want. Pouring a 50lb bag of corn on the ground and setting up shop costs about 10 bucks. I spend thousands.
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#2679908 - Thu May 24 2012 04:59 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: wyomingcounty]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: wyomingcounty
Improving land to encourage deer is not baiting. What a terrible debate. That's like saying if you put in a pond you are doing so so you can kill geese or ducks. I guess if I killed myself and let my land grow up to weeds and saplings I would be doing the deer a service and not "cheating" when it comes to hunting. Liberalism stinks. Get over yourselves folks. Poachers don't do food plots. They road hunt. Road hunting is CHEAP compared to what I spend on improving my land for deer, that's for nursing does, and for anything else that wants to eat it. You can do this debate all you want, I enjoy farming for deer. You do what you want. Pouring a 50lb bag of corn on the ground and setting up shop costs about 10 bucks. I spend thousands.


Improving land to encourage deer is not baiting.

Luring sounds like the proper term is there much of a difference? Sounds as if your trying to convince yourself you are doing nothing wrong.

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#2679982 - Thu May 24 2012 08:36 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
I convinced myself years ago, I think most serious landowners and property guys have.

Before you own or tend to a certain piece of property you travel all over the place to find the type of situation you are creating...be it a couple year old clear cut, and old orchard, the right mix of hardwoods and wintering evergreens, or a nice corner Ag fields next to some thick woods.

Once you find a place to put roots, you try to make THAT place a combination of all those BEST spots. I do miss some of the changes of scenery, even a little of the commradority of those early morning couple hour drives full of anticipation, but I can change the scenery right here now... wink in fact i created a whole new hobby over it and wish i could add the last 20 years of my life to it, as well as the next 30 or so.

Anyone struggling to convince themself of/or understand that, I will not understand.

_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

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#2680007 - Thu May 24 2012 09:03 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: RB-HPA]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
I guess we should all be hunting in biological deserts and macadam parking lots, but there can be no weeds growing in the cracks in the macadam.
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#2680385 - Thu May 24 2012 06:07 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: John S]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
Originally Posted By: John S
I guess we should all be hunting in biological deserts and macadam parking lots, but there can be no weeds growing in the cracks in the macadam.


I'll provide the Roundup to kill those weeds. smile
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#2682299 - Sun May 27 2012 03:23 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest]
SigPro2340 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Nov 15 2001
Posts: 21480
Loc: Pa
Quote:
Restriction on Feeding

The Conservation Commission approved a regulation change at its May 25 meeting that places a restriction on activities that are likely to unnaturally concentrate white-tailed deer and promote the spread of CWD. The ban on the placement of grain, salt products, minerals and other consumable natural or manufactured products is limited to the area where CWD has been found in Macon County and is comprised of Adair, Chariton, Linn, Macon, Randolph and Sullivan counties.

The regulation includes exceptions for backyard feeding of birds and other wildlife within 100 feet of any residence or occupied building, or if feed is placed in such a manner to reasonably exclude access by deer. The regulation also includes exceptions for normal agricultural, forest management, crop and wildlife food production practices.

According to MDC Deer Biologist Jason Sumners, the reason for the regulation change is that activities such as feeding and placement of minerals/salts that artificially concentrate deer greatly increase the likelihood of disease transmission from animal to animal or from soil to animal.


We'll have to see the response once CWD is detected in PA.
Here is Missouri's direction which is pretty much text book.
Corn piles, salt licks, or food plots all concentrate deer at some point.

MDC open house on CWD next steps June 2 in Macon County
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#2682408 - Sun May 27 2012 06:48 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: SigPro2340]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
Quote:
Corn piles, salt licks, or food plots all concentrate deer at some point.


So do apple trees. smile
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#2682439 - Sun May 27 2012 08:05 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest]
SigPro2340 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Nov 15 2001
Posts: 21480
Loc: Pa
Yes they do....but one would think that falls under commercial agriculture/crops in a concentration. There is a big difference comparing that with a food plot. Food plots and bird feeders would be a better comparison.
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#2682662 - Mon May 28 2012 08:08 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: SigPro2340]
Guest Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 27829
Loc: Lancaster County
Actually, if I were to plant 6-10 apple trees in an 1/8th-1/4 acre, instead of clover, I'd really concentrate deer in short order.
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#2682835 - Mon May 28 2012 01:36 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest]
SigPro2340 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Nov 15 2001
Posts: 21480
Loc: Pa
If you didn't plant either you wouldn't have a concentration issue to begin with....which is the jist of what Missouri appears to want to do outside of effected areas.

Inside effected areas bait-away and hammer-away apparently since they are tossing AR to the wind in those areas too. Most likely to cut down on dispersal.
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#2683199 - Mon May 28 2012 10:02 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HomeintheWoods Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Sat Apr 02 2005
Posts: 2222
Loc: Northern PA
What about apple trees along a hedgerow that were planted a century or more ago? Should they be cut down?
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#2683272 - Tue May 29 2012 05:05 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HomeintheWoods]
SigPro2340 Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Thu Nov 15 2001
Posts: 21480
Loc: Pa
I think you are missing the point.
It's future enhancements that concentrate deer they are concerned with; not what's existed for decades.
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#2684090 - Wed May 30 2012 01:36 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Guest]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
Originally Posted By: Dutch
Quote:
Corn piles, salt licks, or food plots all concentrate deer at some point.


So do apple trees. smile


That depends.
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#2721080 - Wed Jul 18 2012 03:29 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
mus42tang Online   content
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Wed Jul 25 2001
Posts: 4882
Loc: Georgia
Well seven months after the question was raised, drought has taken care of that problem.
I wonder what used feeders are selling for these days.
The insanity of it all, as one once said.

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#2722230 - Thu Jul 19 2012 01:16 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: mus42tang]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
I see plenty of apples.
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#2722415 - Thu Jul 19 2012 09:04 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: RB-HPA]
Fleroo Online   content
The man

Registered: Thu Jan 16 2003
Posts: 11928
Loc: 2A-Wash. Co.
Quote:
The animals certainly did not get more complicated, they still don't know what state they are in or what lobby to support, they just want to eat, hide and make more critter


Why by golly, I believe I'm a critter. whistle
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#2722819 - Thu Jul 19 2012 04:20 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Fleroo]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
I can't see making food plots illegal ever happening, many if not most states use food plots for management and promote food plots to land owners.
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#2723466 - Fri Jul 20 2012 02:12 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: John S]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
Agree
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#2724779 - Sat Jul 21 2012 04:21 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HomeintheWoods]
uplandr Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: Mon Dec 22 2003
Posts: 3510
Loc: Bucks Co.
Originally Posted By: HomeintheWoods
I don't even hunt anymore, but I still manage my land for the benefit of wildlife. QDMA is a wealth of information in hempling me manage habitat more effectively. Like RB says, foodplots are used by many forms of wildlife, all year long. It's been my observation that most people who complain about foodplots don't have land. Some don't even acknowledge that the PGC plants them on gamelands. I think ignorance and envy are a very bad combination.


Well said.
While I still hunt my land practices are for the benefit of all wildlife and in return it makes our being there that much more enjoyable.

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#2727347 - Tue Jul 24 2012 04:25 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
robinpapa Offline
journeyman

Registered: Sat Apr 14 2012
Posts: 76
Loc: usa
JMO food plots that are planted just to hunt over should be considered baiting and should not be legal.

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#2729800 - Fri Jul 27 2012 03:24 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: robinpapa]
Swift Offline
The man

Registered: Thu Sep 13 2001
Posts: 10072
Loc: Shippensburg PA
Originally Posted By: robinpapa
JMO food plots that are planted just to hunt over should be considered baiting and should not be legal.


Opinion. Respected.
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#2730172 - Fri Jul 27 2012 01:40 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
Keystonepaul Offline
veteran

Registered: Wed Jan 07 2009
Posts: 1386
Loc: Northeastern PA
The more we do with food plots at our camp, the more I realize that "food plots planted just to hunt over" don't exist. Keystonepaul

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#2731354 - Sat Jul 28 2012 08:58 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: Keystonepaul]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Agreed, til we can hunt 365.
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2731459 - Sat Jul 28 2012 11:20 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
A food plot is 1 thing, small food plots place for a kill is different.

Food plots has lost good small game hunting lands. I do not blame a man for posting his property he payed for and worked to feed wildlife.
But it takes adjoining open properties to have good small game hunts and these posted food plot properties have put a hurting on small game hunters.
First most are small, 100 acres or less. You can't keep hounds on these kind of properties, so dog hunters of all types loose hunting grounds.
Also small game is in when most of these properties are being bowhunted,.
So in my opinion food plots are good for wildlife but most are what has slowed down small game hunting in this state.

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#2731534 - Sun Jul 29 2012 08:04 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Lots of things are slowing small game hunting in PA, part of it is everyone getting deer crazy and into archery...but if someone is managing their land for deer correctly it should only be Improving the small game habitat to..brush piles, clover and others, thick bedding cover, evergreens...I am thick with grouse, turkeys, some bunnies in the pines,creekbottom, and field edges, but you are right it is posted all around me and hunting with dogs would be very difficult there.
_________________________
The BEST family portraits are taken in the Woods!

"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2731549 - Sun Jul 29 2012 08:31 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Forgot to add pretty much what you said, and everyone of these mostly has bow hunters on them during the small game season. So as a small game hunter common sense is that property owner is not going to allow small game hunting.The do help greatly on gamelands, but by the time deer season rolls around these lands are trampled to death up till deer season and all that presure pushes the deer down here in the SW corner onto the neighboring properties. Even putting pheasants on these small gamelands is pretty much a waste of funds they move off the gamelands to these posted properties and are not hunted by hunters just predators.

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#2731687 - Sun Jul 29 2012 11:48 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
6.5-284BMF Online   content
old hand

Registered: Mon Jan 21 2008
Posts: 1044
Loc: Monessen
Foodplots ruining small game hunting? Really ? I thought AR and doe tags created all the posted property. Envy over what you neighbor has probably created most of the posted properety in the SW from what I have seen. ALL the food plots I have aver saw created a abundance of cover/food for all types animals. Wether it is a rabbit eating clover or a redtail waiting to eat a rabbit. They are a welcome addition to any woodlot/farm. I small game hunt and while I wasn't old enough for the good days but I'm not discouraged by these days. You just have to think outside the box when looking property to hunt. Face time means alot. Asking someone to ask someone isn't always the best option. Talk to the owner yourself. Good or bad he knows your face and intentions. Maybe he posted it cause he only hunts deer and would let you in for bunnies or birds. Sorry to say but lawsuits have ruined it for everyone not foodplots! If you knew there was a posibility of someone owning you farm after a suit aginst you tell me you wouldn't post yours! Posted signs are a necessary evil to protect land and youself. I can say I personally see no correlation between foodplots and posted property. Thats like saying gun control and birth control go hand and hand.

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#2732340 - Sun Jul 29 2012 10:11 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Would you let me small game hunt your property while your bow hunting? The seasons are the same time, thats what I am saying. No bow hunter wants a squirrel hunter on his 80 acres of food plot while hes bow hunting.
I know friends who allow no small game hunting because they are trophy hunters, and there are many besides them it shows on these forums. They do not want the deer spooked at all. I also agree with your view and many may not have food plots its there property and they are just deer hunters. I hunt 2 posted properties and sections are off limits for certain bow hunters, and some farms no deer hunting till the 2nd week.

Should they be illegal, only if the food is edible during hunting season in my view unless everyone can hunt over food.
As far as these food plots helping small game, what good does it do if every property on a 3 mile stretch of road is planted and posted and no small game hunting allowed.
Food plots will die out the same as hunting is going down hill, and even with posters theres plenty of good deer hunting properties, just not many small game properties. If its edible than it does not matter what it is if a deer returns to eat it, that makes it bait.

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#2732744 - Mon Jul 30 2012 04:54 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
Some of the most backward thinking I have heard in a long time. Since food plots attract game and you can't hunt those food plots, no one should. People put in the sweat equity, pay the taxes, spend the money to improve conditions to provide food sources for all year long use for wildlife and the envy comes out. If I can't have it, no one else should either. Great attitudes todays hunters have developed. If I had a decent sized piece of land, it would have food plots and since I am a small game hunter hunter I probably would't allow anyone but invited guests hunt there because too much pressure can undo the expected results of the work. Calling food plots bait with contempt shows a great level of envy and an inability of people to look beyond themselves. Those who put in the work should be able to enjoy the reward in the way they see fit so long as it is legal.
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#2732855 - Mon Jul 30 2012 07:02 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
No John the topic is if they should be illegal. If a animal comes to them time and time again to eat, and there hunted over, its no different than bait, food is food in many hunters book of rules. But they are legal for some unknown reason. If it were farm crops planted for farm animals that would be totaly different.

If i pay 5k dollars taxes and the neighboring bare property with food plots pay $300. a year in taxes tell me what you mean buy paying taxes.


I probably would't allow anyone but invited guests hunt there because too much pressure can undo the expected results of the work.

And thats the same mentality these food planting hunters have. They have gone as far as seeing every hunter as a enemy. And again if you do not think food brings in deer there are videos called kill plots which hunters admit thats what they are for and they kill deer over them. Small plots placed throughout the property to attract deer to kill them.

They are legal and they are food (bait), why can't guys just man up to it, its not a big deal.
We never had to plant food to kill deer in the 70s and 80s. And I'm certain hunters of years gone by would have the same view as myself.
I still like to hunt animals I am not big on sitting near food and have the animals hunt me. We made food plots legal for hunters who do not have to scout to find good acorn drops, or watch the wind when they are hunting, they show up at a box stand and know they will kill a deer.

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#2732887 - Mon Jul 30 2012 07:24 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Some good articles for your reading.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whitetail-365/2012/03/fair-chase-wise-bait-and-%E2%80%9Ckill%E2%80%9D-plots-are-same

http://www.monsterraxx.com/publisher/blog/2012/5/11/create-the-ultimate-kill-plot

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/hunt...re-one-and-same

Read the reviews if you also have a chance, as I said many see food plots as long-term baiting.

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#2732988 - Mon Jul 30 2012 08:36 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
6.5-284BMF Online   content
old hand

Registered: Mon Jan 21 2008
Posts: 1044
Loc: Monessen
From most expierence I have with plots its just the natural progression of hunting today. DEDICATED hunters taking biology of whitetails and running with it. We know what types of food and nutrients deer need at select times of the year and we supplement it through plots and mineral stations to help them. I bet I have more time in the 1/2 acre plot up to this point than most people put in all year scouting. In fact I know I have more time in that plot than most will spend scouting and hunting. This is my first year ever plotting and I still have killed a buck 12 years in a row with a bow. I never understood what it took to plot till I tried it. I have a whole new respect for farmers! I could keep hunting the way I have been and killing bucks but I want to help themALL year. 2 of my 3 small plots this year were planted with 2 things in mind. 1 get the landowners daughter a deer in her first year hunting. 2 give them a reliable source of food to lessen the blow of winter on them and help the does with fawning in and milk production. If you feel your a better hunter cause you know where a acorn drops or the wind blows so be it. I know the deer where I hunt will be very well fed throught the year wether I harvest one or not.

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#2733142 - Mon Jul 30 2012 10:35 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
I have a whole new respect for farmers!

That's where it all went in reverse when we started farming deer instead of hunting them.
Planting a bait plot is not close to being a farmer.

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#2733181 - Mon Jul 30 2012 11:12 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
6.5-284BMF Online   content
old hand

Registered: Mon Jan 21 2008
Posts: 1044
Loc: Monessen
WOW! Missing the point completly. I meant the amount of hard work they put in and the hardships they face with costs and weather working aginst them. Meaning whats harder researching your property, mapping out the best sanctuaries, locating travel patterns, food sources, escape routes, determining prevaling wind directions, soil testing, chemical application, fertilizer application, ground prep, planting, plot cutting and stand placements just to name a few or just finding a oak and setting up shop? I know whats even easier. Sitting behind a keyboard trying to belittle the hunters that actually spend countless hours and time doing this stuff not because we have to but because we want to. For them. Tell me it should be illegal when I'm out there in Feb. cutting out borders and hinge cutting while the snows flying and its 15 degrees. How about April when were removing brush and soil samplinng. If you, with a straight face, can see this the same a dumping apples or corn so be it. That is beyond me. I hear this stuff all the time but it just strikes me as a lack of dedication and more importantally an excuse for a multitude of things. To use Galthatfishes Signature " The man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic. ~Roosevelt "

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#2733891 - Tue Jul 31 2012 07:03 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
Ya just can't help yourself. Food plots are not bait plots anymore than hunting in a farm crop field is using bait Your problem is envy,admit it, people have been using planted crops as an area to hunt deer before food plots came into being.Your premise is nonsense, if food plots are bait, it would be illegal to hunt near any farm crops. The law decides what is bait, not envious hunters and you can proclaim you position from the roof tops but you will contiue to be wrong. BTW, I don't hunt property with plots, but I don't hold it against or think less of those who do.
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Life is short, Eat dessert first!

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#2733996 - Tue Jul 31 2012 08:25 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: John S]
6.5-284BMF Online   content
old hand

Registered: Mon Jan 21 2008
Posts: 1044
Loc: Monessen
Amen John!

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#2735376 - Thu Aug 02 2012 08:57 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
BME08 Offline
apprentice

Registered: Mon May 21 2012
Posts: 40
Loc: 4c
Why not take it as far as saying that my hinge cuts/ clear cuts are bait!!! Maybe I shouldn't hunt the edges of these areas? The food that is there isn't naturally occuring. I caused it to grow through tree removal. Maybe I should stay away from one of my favorite spots, "The Acorn Flats", as we call it (for a reason) once the acorns start dropping. Hunting this area during a good crop year is like dumping them out by the bushel. The bottom line is that any property improvement you do benefits ALL wildlfe in some way. The people that I have come across as being "critics" of habitat management/ food plotting often times are the same people that would never put in the long hours it requires to do it! Do I see more deer since we started a land management program? Yes, but I also see more turkeys, rabbits, grouse, coyotes, bear, bobcat and the list goes on. Most of us who embark on a management plan enjoy the work and the rewarding feeling you get by providing improved habitat for your "residents" and seeing them flourish. If it was strictly to kill a monster I would spend my hard earned money on a trip to Iowa every year.

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#2735436 - Thu Aug 02 2012 10:44 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: BME08]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
Yes, but I also see more turkeys, rabbits, grouse, coyotes, bear, bobcat and the list goes on.

One of the several important affects of food plots.
thumbs
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#2736925 - Fri Aug 03 2012 10:39 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HomeintheWoods Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Sat Apr 02 2005
Posts: 2222
Loc: Northern PA
When I bought the parcel I built my house on in 1998 it was being ravaged by a herd of angus. No food or cover. No rabbits, or tracks. Fast forward 14 years. When I pull into the driveway late in teh evening the rabbits scurry all over. Most evenings I don't even attempt to count them. I would guess 8 would be an average and I actually counted 12 a few days ago. Tree planting, food plots and chainsaw work all serve to enhance the habitat and provide me with the opportunity to enjoy watching the wildlife that takes advantage of it.
Oh, and I see more deer too.
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#2737323 - Sat Aug 04 2012 04:58 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
beaglespackers Offline
veteran

Registered: Tue Jul 28 2009
Posts: 1217
Loc: Pennsylvania, 5A
What about the people that put feed out every single day, except for the 30 days prior to hunting...up until the last day of hunting. I personally have nothing against food plots (just planted one myself), but i personally wouldn't mind if hunters were allowed to bait either.

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#2737364 - Sat Aug 04 2012 06:02 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: beaglespackers]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
What about them? They sure are not doing as much good as those who put the work into a food plot. All they are doing is putting wildlife on welfare.
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#2737401 - Sat Aug 04 2012 06:35 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: John S]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: John S
Ya just can't help yourself. Food plots are not bait plots anymore than hunting in a farm crop field is using bait Your problem is envy,admit it, people have been using planted crops as an area to hunt deer before food plots came into being.Your premise is nonsense, if food plots are bait, it would be illegal to hunt near any farm crops. The law decides what is bait, not envious hunters and you can proclaim you position from the roof tops but you will contiue to be wrong. BTW, I don't hunt property with plots, but I don't hold it against or think less of those who do.


I do not hunt them either but I can. I choose to hunt, not sit and wait on a deer that visits the plot 99.9% of the time for a meal.
You did not read all those responses I see. They shoud be illegal because they are a constant food source planted for deer themselves.
Thats why they are bait. Food is bait.

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#2737430 - Sat Aug 04 2012 07:10 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
lol lol
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#2737446 - Sat Aug 04 2012 07:32 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
beaglespackers Offline
veteran

Registered: Tue Jul 28 2009
Posts: 1217
Loc: Pennsylvania, 5A
I just don't understand the reason that you aren't allowed to bait in general

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#2737457 - Sat Aug 04 2012 07:49 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: beaglespackers]
savage axis Offline
old hand

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 740
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: beaglespackers
I just don't understand the reason that you aren't allowed to bait in general



+1 most are doing it anyway might as well make it legal.
All those guys walking out of walmart with minerals and deer corn are not being bought for the chickens.

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#2737463 - Sat Aug 04 2012 07:58 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
beaglespackers Offline
veteran

Registered: Tue Jul 28 2009
Posts: 1217
Loc: Pennsylvania, 5A
I just don't understand the argument that food plots are natural...now that you planted them a deer will concentrate itself to your food plot. Same is true if you provide an attraction site of corn or apples all year long. They both attract deer. The definition of natural is: "Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind." If you ask me, how can a food plot fit under as natural (its not considered natural under the definition i provided) and a bait pile isn't.

People argue that a food plot is natural and a bait pile isn't. Well, I know of a bunch of people that provide corn/apples year round (except for hunting season)...so what is the difference between the 2 if you would be allowed to bait? I really see no difference between the two.

As i said earlier, I am not against food plots, as I too have planted one this year. I just don't think it is necessarily fair to people that don't have land to hunt and can't make food plots because they don't have the property and/or money.


Edited by beaglespackers (Sat Aug 04 2012 08:00 PM)

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#2737533 - Sat Aug 04 2012 09:52 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HomeintheWoods Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Sat Apr 02 2005
Posts: 2222
Loc: Northern PA
A food plot looks like an ag field. A bait pile looks like a bait pile. Which one looks and behaves like it belongs?
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#2737611 - Sat Aug 04 2012 11:33 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
beaglespackers Offline
veteran

Registered: Tue Jul 28 2009
Posts: 1217
Loc: Pennsylvania, 5A
So what if a farmer cuts his corn field and then spreads 1000 pounds of corn throughout his field?...would that be considered baiting?

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#2737731 - Sun Aug 05 2012 08:59 AM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
HomeintheWoods Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: Sat Apr 02 2005
Posts: 2222
Loc: Northern PA
Yes. Spreading corn is not a normal ag practice. Why do foodplots bother you so much? Enhancing the habitat for the benefit of wildlife is one of the perks of owning land. Of course it comes with additional commitment of time and resources beyond those already required to buy the land. The land that I own was for sale. Anyone could have bought it. I was able to because I am fortunate to earn a good living. But even doing that involves sacrifice and commitment.
Maybe we should take the land that allows hunting and divide it into equal size tracts based on the number of hunters. An annual lottery would be held to determine what tract goes with your license for the year. Since this could be done each year there's no incentive for the hunter to improve the habitat on their tract since they wouldn't have the same tract next year anyway. I think this would be the fairest of all approaches. The current method that rewards people for hardwork has to be eliminated.


Edited by HomeintheWoods (Sun Aug 05 2012 09:13 AM)
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#2738037 - Sun Aug 05 2012 03:34 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: beaglespackers]
John S Offline
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Posts: 38864
Loc: Lancaster,PA,Lancaster
How, can it be considered natural? Very easily, piles of corn, or apples or mineral blocks didn't grow were someone placed them, they are not an accepted farming practice or a wildlife management practice, food plots grow, that is a natural food source and is an accepted wildlfe management practice and farming practice, secondly, your definition or anyone elses beside the definition of bait in the game and wildlife code doesn't mean spit, it is the one in the law that counts. I would think people would be embarrased by admitting they can't tell the difference between a pile of grain or a mineral block, and an acre of a growing food source!
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Life is short, Eat dessert first!

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#2738214 - Sun Aug 05 2012 06:50 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
casey Online   content

The man

Registered: Wed Aug 21 2002
Posts: 8572
Loc: milford pa-pike county
All,

Please let's keep this topic civil. ty
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#2818530 - Thu Oct 18 2012 01:54 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: savage axis]
8ptspike Offline
On the board

Registered: Sun Sep 30 2012
Posts: 278
Loc: NW PA
Someone forgot to tell all my apples trees and my few pear trees they are supposed to be bait not one of them has a piece if fruit on them due to the half dozen hard frosts we had in May around here. And no homemade applesauce or apple butter for the family.
I haven't planted any food plots, yet, but I am sure there is a lot of hard work and dedication that goes into them. It is certainly okay in my mind if someone wants to plant for plots to improve their land and success rate. It is certainly better for ALL the critters than a lot of what we have growing up in the state. It seems to me that most of the guys who are dedicated to doing all this hard work are already very successful hunters. I think so much in life is you reap what you sow. How people "prefer" to hunt is their choice, but food plots cannot be considered the same as baiting like dumping 50 pounds of corn every three days. I mean seriously.That's the lazy mans way out, and sadly, yes there are a lot of guys buying those bags at Wal Mart and doing just that.
As for baiting should be legal since not everyone can afford land and food plots, that is just nonsense. I guess every lake should just be 60 yards wide to make it fair for everyone because some people can't afford a boat. And if it is bigger than that, only shore fishing should be allowed.
Not referring to any poster in general, but I know a guy who has every conceivable toy in the world, hot gadget, newest of everything, but no land. So he tries to get permission to hunt everyone elses land around. When people tell him no, he gets mad. I finally had enough of him and hearing him bad talk people and revoked his permission to hunt my land. I pay my mortgage, taxes, $ for up keep, and a heck of a lot of time to maintain it so he can pull in in his $50k truck, new gear every year, etc and go hunt. I say, buy your own land and forgo some of your other materialistic possessions in the process!!! It's all about ones personal choices. And as for the Roosevelt quote it is one of my favorites and actually quite a bit longer. It is inspiring to read the whole thing.

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#2818535 - Thu Oct 18 2012 01:58 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
8ptspike Offline
On the board

Registered: Sun Sep 30 2012
Posts: 278
Loc: NW PA
Roosevelt quote at length. Enjoy. From a time when presidents where presidential!
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

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#2818905 - Thu Oct 18 2012 07:02 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: 8ptspike]
RB-HPA Offline

HPA NW Rep/Site Owner
Stopped counting

Registered: Tue Jan 13 2004
Posts: 27985
Loc: Home 2F, Camp 2G & 2F
Originally Posted By: 8ptspike
Roosevelt quote at length. Enjoy. From a time when presidents where presidential!
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."


Brother, if you ever want to get a food plot in the ground or hunt over one, you call me, I am close enough to help and i like your attitude. thumbs
_________________________
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"Only takes a second to change your season" Dad, 1980

"One should not believe everything they read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln, 1865

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#2820852 - Sat Oct 20 2012 03:26 PM Re: Food plots illegal [Re: HammerDown15]
RegularJoe Offline
old hand

Registered: Mon Jan 04 2010
Posts: 760
Loc: NW PA 1B
I don't put much credit into a man's talk if he hasn't walked the walk. Makes about as much sense as me telling the wife how pain free the birth of our children was...

It would be interesting to see hard numbers showing if those against it owned land or not. I have spent countless hours, untold thousands of dollars, and dripped many gallons of sweat over my land, both to pay for it and improve it. I don't see how anyone who spent their cash as they pleased has any right to complain because I spent mine on this place and didn't break any laws to do it.

Grandma always said "sweep your own back porch before you sweep your neighbors."
_________________________
Sadly most of my life has been wasted, but the rest I spent hunting, fishing, and trapping...

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