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post #1 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Food plots illegal

Just curious if anyone else saw in the new field and stream they were predicting that wildlife agencies were going to start considering foodplots baiting in the future. Thought it was interesting they would say that but don't see it happening. I think page 30 off the top of my head, if you can't find it let me know and i will get the correct page.

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post #2 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

I think that would be a great idea! Instead of deer hunting the hunter it would be the hunter accually hunting the deer again! jmo

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post #3 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Chad, come hunt my food plots. You'll see how easy it is. LOL

I won't hunt them, waste of time. The trail cameras don't lie, all night use, no daytime use.



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post #4 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 11:52 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Never happen. Too much $$ going into hunting via food plots, equipment, fencing, property management, etc. Same for hunting near oak, beech, chestnut stands or soft mast trees/bushes, those would need to be illegal hunt sites too. That would be like saying we will all have to hunt with iron sighted slug guns or stick bows just to make it more fair.

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post #5 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 12:21 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Here is one reason not to make that mistake...this is April I was not hunting that day.



Only those that just hunt deer see food plots as bait, those that tend to deer's needs all year (including SGL/SF food and cover guys) know that is not true. Not many wasting money on "bait" in April now is there??? Don't answer, it is already known.

Field and Stream they still print that thing??



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post #6 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Food plots illegal

it was outdoor life sorry. Just thought it was curious they would write that.

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post #7 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 10:44 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

I don't get that one either, but my guess is like many posts on here and on other MBs is that they wrote it cause they knew it would heat up some and maybe get the magazine some attention.

This is just my .02 on them from what i have seen and not directed at anyone..but anyone that argues foodplots are just bait and not year long habitat improvements, have not watched one provide all year, or seen the difference in deer that have them in their life and deer that don't. Even my hammered little plots that came from me just wanting something else in that little opening other than goldenrod or piled old logs have made a difference along with everything else I have done. They are visited all year long and a part of a whole plan I follow. Deer, turkeys, bears, drummers and even fat groundhogs and rabbits have taken notice. Have they helped my property become a wildlife magnet, yes, along with my sanctuary area, timber and hinge cuttings, and removal of excess animals (which use to be are only job).

State agencies wanted us to become more than just hunters of wildlife, well we have and I hope they don't cave to the ignorance of statements like..."it is just bait", no matter what magazine it is in. They know it is not.

ALso to keep this oriented to the forum it is in, QDMA gave me (and many others) the training on all of this stuff, thru their magazine, materials and website and of course I got alot of help from many here on HPA. I see the QDMA organization as the one group that turns deer hunters into more than just deer hunters...and I am a darn proud member of that.










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post #8 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 05:55 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

QDMA turns deer hunters into land and wildlife stewards.

There is a huge mindset change in a hunter when he goes from "consumer" to steward.



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post #9 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 01:07 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

I don't even hunt anymore, but I still manage my land for the benefit of wildlife. QDMA is a wealth of information in hempling me manage habitat more effectively. Like RB says, foodplots are used by many forms of wildlife, all year long. It's been my observation that most people who complain about foodplots don't have land. Some don't even acknowledge that the PGC plants them on gamelands. I think ignorance and envy are a very bad combination.

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post #10 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:04 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

QDMA has planted foodplots on game lands and on state forest lands as well.

Right now, we're working on some habitat improvements and food plots for the public land hunter on the KQDC. We hope it will involve the hunters that hunt there.

Stay tuned!

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post #11 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Foodplots are a good thing! Here's a pic of a 2 acres clover plot I put in a few years ago. The deer are in it every night. Nothing wrong with Habitat Improvement.


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post #12 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:13 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

That was the wrong pic this a different plot with rye in it.

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post #13 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 12:19 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Here's the pic. I put this plot in a couple seasons after the property was logged. It's on a hill top.


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post #14 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 11:58 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.

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post #15 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 08:40 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Stupid article.
There are thousands of food plots on sgl's around the state and also on sf land in the elk range. Who would believe the PGC would make foodplots(or hunting around them) illegal, when they PROMOTE them? Other states are the same.
Just dumb and why I don't read those magazines. Not, slamming the guy who posted it on here. But, the author and editor of the mag had a stupid moment.

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post #16 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 08:04 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

OK, so who is behind this cart?

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post #17 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 04:21 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by threeinchmag
Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.
Intent is where the baiting line is drawn. The orchard or small crop field was not installed to kill a deer.

Habitat improvement is an honorable reason for installing food plots, and I thank you for improving our wildlife resources.

Unfortunately, a large number of food plots are installed for the sole purpose of killing deer. You are baiting if you hunt from a tree house overlooking your little food plot in the woods. I am not saying this should be illegal, just that the intention is the same as dumping a pile of corn in the woods. Maybe all baiting should be legal so no lines need to be drawn.

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post #18 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 07:01 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

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Originally Posted by Swift
OK, so who is behind this cart?

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post #19 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-02-2012, 12:41 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

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Originally Posted by JerrySS
Quote:
Originally Posted by threeinchmag
Where would that stop?You can't hunt near a small orchard?Or near a small crop field?What about new fallen trees?I realize there's a push to make foodplots as baiting but I'd be curious to see where the line is drawn.
Intent is where the baiting line is drawn. The orchard or small crop field was not installed to kill a deer.

Habitat improvement is an honorable reason for installing food plots, and I thank you for improving our wildlife resources.

Unfortunately, a large number of food plots are installed for the sole purpose of killing deer. You are baiting if you hunt from a tree house overlooking your little food plot in the woods. I am not saying this should be illegal, just that the intention is the same as dumping a pile of corn in the woods. Maybe all baiting should be legal so no lines need to be drawn.

Jerry
Not to be smart; but have you ever tried to hunt a food plot? Usually they are in an open space, so if you hunt the fringe of that, you are easily spotted. First inkling that a human is there, the deer are noctournal- good luck getting them after that!

ONE, one acre food plot produces about 6000 pounds (or more) of vegetation. That takes pressure off of countless acres of woodland. Research how much browse is created per year in a mature woodland.

In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters. They are exceptionally difficult to hunt.

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post #20 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-03-2012, 12:12 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

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In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters.
I agree completely. All I am saying is often that is not the reason food plots were installed.

The typical Pennsylvania scenario
A serious whitetail hunter spends $50,000 - $200,000 for some acreage. Next he posts the land and spends more money and effort putting in food plots. I may be cynical but I cannot believe this amount of money and effort was done for the benefit of the wildlife. This was done solely for him and his family to have the best opportunity to harvest deer.

Quote:
They (food plots) are exceptionally difficult to hunt.
Sorry, but I have to disagree here. In the above scenario the land has been posted and sees almost no hunting pressure. Under these conditions the deer behavior will change and become less spooky. Even though I hate watching them, the typical hunting show on TV is staged over an undisturbed food plot with a large number of deer coming to feed in the evening.
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post #21 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-03-2012, 12:18 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

I think the PGC should make it mandatory that all green areas be removed from the state at least 30 days prior to hunting season. Also, no hunting over water sources. Poor thirsty deer trying to get a drink and some hunter is there using a water source like bait.

Obviously this is tongue in cheek. People who criticize food plots are just upset they don't have one to utilize.
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post #22 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-03-2012, 12:46 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

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Quote:
In my mind, they improve habitat and provide nutrition to lots of critters.I agree completely. All I am saying is often that is not the reason food plots were installed.

The typical Pennsylvania scenario
A serious whitetail hunter spends $50,000 - $200,000 for some acreage. Next he posts the land and spends more money and effort putting in food plots. I may be cynical but I cannot believe this amount of money and effort was done for the benefit of the wildlife. This was done solely for him and his family to have the best opportunity to harvest deer.
I agree with Jerry , except where he says "solely", that is essentially what i did and it was the best move I ever made. Well we bought the land to build a house in the woods with a big backyard with sticks to feed a planned outdoor wood bolier (self sufficency)...but as those house plans slowed down and the land started to show its potential as a wildlife hotpsot, I focused on that part instead of making "habitat" for my family, it was a lightbulb moment for me on how much owning land changes your hunting life.

I have never been one to rely on government or its agencies that much anyway, and I guess that philosohpy finally carried over to my hunting. Public Land has a million strings attached to it and doing habitat improvements for a specific animal has another million strings attached to it to make sure it fits within a larger plan....I know I have done them and set them up. I will stop VERY well short of saying the DCNR and PGC are not doing all they can with what they have , they are, but in the same breath i am not getting any hunting seasons over at the end to do again if I was dissatisfied with it or the pace of it so if I can create better ones for my gang I will within the law. They have to keep everyone from birdwatchers, to hunters, to treehuggers happy with their land and that makes slow to move furstrating policy for many hunters...Me, I just got to keep the critters and my family happy so far , so very very good.

I bought my 54 acres of timbered land for the price of a decked out SUV..18 deer harvests for the family in 5 years, both my son's first deer killed there, my biggest buck ever, + a huge jump in my wife's deer harvest stats, then add a bear this year , and tons of wildlife sightings of all kinds and memories all year long, and hopefully soon a spring bird to complete the 2011-12 triple trophy all right there in its borders..heck ya!!! I am planting food plots to keep animals around to improve our hunting + doing all the other things to the woods I would have on a never tended to wish list for the public grounds I do hunt. No apologies here, no hiding it, i sing the praises of it and I really did not need a decked out SUV anyway, hunting is much more important to my life... and it would be silly to get land that cost that much and have it mirror the 100s of thousands public acres of land that surround me here, I want it better, much better. Public land which I could hunt for the price of a hunting license and just use it and forget it.A cost I likely incur in just a few hours of one of my "habitat days" up on the hill...or in a couple days worth of my loan monthly payment. I agree with Jerry, a big purpose is o kill deer and make memories... I just never realized how many others things benefit from it now and in Novemeber.

Now to be fair about this "nothing but for killing" statement made,the first and only ones to ever kill a deer standing in my plots so far happened last year, twice , from the same stand, a week apart, both kids' very first deer, in one of my best laid stand placement plans ever , designed strcitly for that purpose. So, 2 to 16 is the score there on plots to non-plot kills, hunting the terrain change funnel and sanctuary borders (something else i wish public land could offer to critters) has been 8 times more productive, I admit plots do influence the predicitablity of travel but not as much as wind, terrain, hunting pressure, other available foods, and time of day.

It is a tool, but not the whole toolbox. I will offer tours of my tool box anytime to anyone, and you will see it is not just a foodplot with a treestand overlooking it, surrounded by whatever else... each acre has a purpose to make my hunting better, some of it sees me there every time up, some has not seen me in 4 years.

Serious deer hunter is a compliment I do enjoy getting, becasue I never have been more in tune with the deer i hunt , but wildlife steward is the goal of the plan..just consider the manicured habitat for wildlife on my land, my shiny rims , leather seats and headrest DVD player..except I won't be trading it in after 5 years to get the bulit in screen dash GPS and it parks itself option. Bottom line of that is it is in the reach of many and I encourage as many as I can to make the move.

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post #23 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-04-2012, 02:20 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

RB,

OK, "solely" was a bit strong. How about "mainly"?

I appreciate your honesty in your explanation of your land improvements and reasons for doing them. I am jealous. I would love to have the opportunity to do the same, but the price tag is too steep for me at this stage in my life.

Some may take my earlier posts as criticism, but I was just trying to show how some food plots could be construed as a form of baiting. Again I am not being critical, just objective.

Regarding the "serious deer hunter" label. After reading many of your posts, I believe you are beyond the serious status, maybe fanatical.

Jerry

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post #24 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-04-2012, 04:11 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

"Largely" maybe at first, but the cool thing you see is the use it gets all year long, i mean tonight, right now I can't hunt but I likely had a deer in there nipping on whatever he could find today, here in the dead of winter...trail cams will tell the tale come Sunday...it gets to where you don;t want to let them down, after all they seldom let me down. i don't want to toss em a sack of ear corn, but give em some nice high protein greens they been eating since summer. Something i did in June and have not done anything with since. Bait? Not sure i know any bait piles not tended to since June that are doing anything for anyone tonight.

Fanatic...well thanks , hunting is my religion, my God knows it, my wife knows it, my kids know it. my priest knows it. Sometimes other "parishiners" or "tone of a sermon" can mess with what you really believe...if that happens build your own church, but that ain't no time to quit praying..in the middle of a food plot you can see the sky pretty good, throw in some colored leaves and there is your stained glass.

Jerry i truly wish every hunter that just had the desire could get some land, can you imagine how much better things would be for critters ??? We are humans, we have a hard time doing stuff if we get no reward from it, the benefit of increased harvest has done more for conservation all over this land than anything else that has been tried...I am certainly not going to keep my 54 acres exempt from that formula. Not sure where you live, but I am also sportsmen enough to say if you ever want to sit in one of the stands up there, let me know, I'll trade deer kills for good friendships 24/7/365, I am darn proud of what i do there, and handshakes are all part of that.

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post #25 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-04-2012, 04:26 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Thanks for the generous invitation. I might have taken you up on your offer if my 13 year old son had the hunting bug. He gave it a try (I think for my sake) but it just wasn't there. I am still searching for the perfect hobby we can both enjoy, but there are many generational obstacles.

Quote:
i truly wish every hunter that just had the desire could get some land, can you imagine how much better things would be for critters ???
Unfortunately there is not enough land to divide among everyone who shares your passion. I admit, on other threads I have been critical of hunters buying or leasing land and posting it for their personal use. My view is biased since I have lost many favorite haunts due to these actions. I completely understand their objectives for posting but it still troubles me regarding the future of hunting. If I was fortunate enough to obtain some acreage I would struggle on which path to take.

You stated once that you foresee the PGC catering more to the serious hunter in the future. Times have changed from my youth and it seems our society will also progressively lean toward a minority group of hunters. There are no easy answers.

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post #26 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-05-2012, 12:23 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Jerry, I am worried about the future of hunting myself...heck i worry about the future of anything anymore. It gets so that you can't get motivated to save the world, just make yours better. Warren county is huge with leases, many of my old grouse haunts posted up and it is one reason i quite grousing about.

I hope you and your son do find that connective hobby..if it does ever include trying the hunting one more time. Bring him up late October or early November and we will let the bucks do their best to set a hook.

On my PGC comment, yes I do believe eventually as ranks fall, the guy that CANNOT live without hunting will have more tags, longer seasons. Deer management with a million hunters on a million deer is one thing...whats coming will be another. Good stuff, enjoyed the chat.

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post #27 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-12-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Rooster, I completely agree with your take on the future of hunting. All states I think will face the same dilema.

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post #28 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-12-2012, 08:16 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Food plots are of great nutritional bennifit. Where they are will determine success if one chooses to hunt them. I have some that I will shoot deer out of and some that I will not. I have no problem with someone investing sweat equity in their land, they pay the taxes, they maintain the property, the purchased that property. Provided they work within the laws..they should be able do with it as they please. I wish I had more time and more money to invest in ours. When you see deer, turkey and bear foraging for hours that is as rewarding as it gets. I have sat in stand all day during a hunting season and never pulled the trigger. That was the most rewarding and rememberable day as I have ever had. Lets just say its a passion I have for the outdoors. What ever I can do to help I will. If it can bennifit me great if it does not thats fine too.

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post #29 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 02:16 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

A one acre food plot can grow 6K pounds of vegetation, taking pressure off of young trees in nearby woods. Anyone have an idea how much vegetation grows per acre in a mature woods?

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post #30 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 08:42 PM
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Gal, I'll go out on a limb and say none LOL.

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post #31 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-14-2012, 11:46 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Close, lol. 30 to 50 pounds. What I like about food plots is they take pressure off of the woods and allow them to get a jump start. Otherwise, as few as 4 deer can keep mature forest from growing anything. Its just sometimes impossible to get deer numbers low enough to get any kind of regeneration.

Forests where the canopy is opened somewhat get more sunlight and can produce more new stems. Thats a good thing.

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post #32 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 05:59 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

How did critters survive before land/critter management.

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post #33 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 12:42 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

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How did critters survive before land/critter management.
The eco system was kept in balance by predators and native Americans.



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post #34 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 03:05 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift
How did critters survive before land/critter management.
That is easy, the animal #'s did not have to keep hunters, or other groups of interested parties happy/unhappy within a certain boundry. If the food was gone, the herd moved and hunters moved with it, those that did not want the critters anymore rejoiced they were gone. Can't do that now... well the animals can, it is just tough for us humans as we tend to plant roots pretty deep when we set up shop (no pun intended).

Now we need to keep them balanced not only within the manmade state borders, but within certain areas in those borders, where folks have both investments in hunting such critters (such as camps and equipment) and others have investments to profit from things deer eat (such as timber, prize roses or cash crop)

The animals certainly did not get more complicated, they still don't know what state they are in or what lobby to support, they just want to eat, hide and make more critter, but us humans with our borders, investments, need for concrete places and recreational/profit demands kind of screwed all that up. We created the problems that we now need to manage , not the critters. Be thankful though because managed hunting is the proven solution to many of the problems our fellow man created. "Wildlife" management is really how to manage an animal to fit in with our world , not how to make us fit into their's.

I welcome all critters to my little place, as i got booted from the woods myself as a child by concrete creep. The hill will always be theirs over ours, we got enough human habitat in this world I think. However , I am also human enough to know I got to step in to keep them stable and healthy cause I ain't moving after them, after all I got my roots planted.

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post #35 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-17-2012, 01:19 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerydude21
I think the PGC should make it mandatory that all green areas be removed from the state at least 30 days prior to hunting season. Also, no hunting over water sources. Poor thirsty deer trying to get a drink and some hunter is there using a water source like bait.

Obviously this is tongue in cheek. People who criticize food plots are just upset they don't have one to utilize.
+1!!

In an age of universal lies, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act - George Orwell
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post #36 of 94 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 03:04 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalThatFishes
A one acre food plot can grow 6K pounds of vegetation, taking pressure off of young trees in nearby woods. Anyone have an idea how much vegetation grows per acre in a mature woods?
Yes but the deer that come to those plots don't just focus on the plot they are still going to browse so actually attracting more deer with a plot is not going to help the woods much unless the whole area is rich in food and the deer are not drawn in large numbers to the plot.

I wish we had cleared and planted areas in all state gamelands and forests. No way against them just saying. I think the above statement is the reason you don't see more food plots on state land. The only actual food plots I know of are in areas that are mostly brush and not many trees in the first place. Probably be proven wrong on that but the only ones I have ever seen were around brushy areas. Have seen some in the the mountains and they were really poor food plots that I doubt was very beneficial for the deer population.

You canít get them if you ainít in the woods!!
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post #37 of 94 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 11:59 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

The north Mountain Branch of QDMA planted 18 acres of food plots on state game lands last year. This year should be no different.

The only easy day was yesterday
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post #38 of 94 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 12:40 PM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Nice job guys!

The man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic. ~Roosevelt
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post #39 of 94 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 04:19 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Yup, our Susquehanna branch plants them on our SGL's too. PGC can't afford to do it. Same with daylighting fruit trees, planting chestnut trees, TSI and hinge-cutting, etc. You know what Editor, too bad the "unified" crowd spends their time and $$ on lawyers, which does nothing for the resource, while our organization actually puts our feet on the ground and makes a difference!! Keep fighting the fight!!

In an age of universal lies, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act - George Orwell
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post #40 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 03:13 AM
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Re: Food plots illegal

Improving land to encourage deer is not baiting. What a terrible debate. That's like saying if you put in a pond you are doing so so you can kill geese or ducks. I guess if I killed myself and let my land grow up to weeds and saplings I would be doing the deer a service and not "cheating" when it comes to hunting. Liberalism stinks. Get over yourselves folks. Poachers don't do food plots. They road hunt. Road hunting is CHEAP compared to what I spend on improving my land for deer, that's for nursing does, and for anything else that wants to eat it. You can do this debate all you want, I enjoy farming for deer. You do what you want. Pouring a 50lb bag of corn on the ground and setting up shop costs about 10 bucks. I spend thousands.

Please put your WMU in your location! Helps! 3C
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